Wow, you guys are great. I love reading this kind of stuff.
Wow, you guys are great. I love reading this kind of stuff.
I'm not sure where all the money is that I've "saved" by casting and reloading!
As another data point, some years ago I loaded several 5-gallon buckets full of "full-charge" wadcutters in once-fired, plain brass, uncannelured Speer .38 Spl. +P headstamped cases gleaned from a law enforcement training facility. These were loaded with Saeco #348 double-end, bevel-based wadcutters cast from indoor range backstop scrap, loaded as-cast and unsized, lubricated with Lee Liquid Alox, with CCI500 primers and 3.5 grains of Bullseye, using a Lee Factory Crimp Die as the last station to profile the rounds on the Dillon RL550B.
I recently came into a hoard of old Remington wadcutter boxes and decided I would box and repack some of this ammo. In doing so I found two rounds which slipped through the process without being reprimed, so I decided to pull the bullets and measure their diameters to see how much their as-cast diameter was reduced by compression inside the case, when profiling in the Lee Factory Crimp die. This batch of ammo has always shot well, and there were no surprises, but it was nice to validate my "gut" that because the ammo shot well, nothing was amiss.
As-cast diameter of the bullets was .360-.361," measuring over the lube film.
Diameter of the driving bands of the pulled bullets measured .358-.3585", as it should be.
Diameter of the exposed bevel base and front driving band after having been "kissed" by the seater die was a uniform .359" which is a press fit into the revolver chambers, but not enough to impair reloading with speed loaders.
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Really great thread! I'm a big .38 Special fan and in particular love wadcutters. Subscribing to this one!
I have a fair bit of wadcutter brass but most of it is mixed in with regular brass that I need to separate out which stinks. The variation of case cannalure styles sucks to cherry pick out, not all is the same. I can tell you that current production Fiocchi .38 Wadcutter target loads are in brass that has no cannalure but it is head stamped as wadcutter, FYI. I don't know if its available as component only but Remington still sells a target wadcutter load and their 158gr. LSWCHP load is in nickel WC brass. I'd buy a gaggle of both but it's not exactly cheap. I wish Starline made WC brass. I have thought about trying to ream some regular brass for wadcutters.
~ Chris
Casting, reloading, shooting, collecting, restoring, smithing, etc, I love it all but most importantly, God, Family, The United States Constitution and Freedom...
God Bless our Troops, Veterans and First Responders!
Diligentia, Vis, Celeritas
Accuracy, Power & Speed
Starline .38 Special brass I have measured is 0.010" thick down to a depth of 0.5 from the mouth and is comparable to Federal wadcutter brass. If doing this for serious competition, get a Sinclair neck turner with .357 pilot and outside neck turn cases to a uniform 0.010" to a depth of 0.5" from the mouth, to clean up any thick spots. Use Kroil on the pilot to prevent galling and then degrease in hot water with detergent and let dry thoroughly before doing the rest of your prep and loading.
After firing you will have a slight interior "step" under the bullet base, just like factory wadcutter brass.
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Good to know, I like Starline so im glad it is serviceable for wadcutter use. I need to get a neck turner,a good one like the Sinclair. When 7.62x25 Tokarev brass was hard to find i case formed it off .223/5.56 brass which trimmed that far down presented a neck that was way too thick. So I made a bushing that fit my Redding case trimmer to hold a chucking reamer and used that to inside neck ream it. Worked very well and being a bottleneck cartridge, there was no reaming step.
~ Chris
Casting, reloading, shooting, collecting, restoring, smithing, etc, I love it all but most importantly, God, Family, The United States Constitution and Freedom...
God Bless our Troops, Veterans and First Responders!
Diligentia, Vis, Celeritas
Accuracy, Power & Speed
Char-gar
I shoot International Centerfire with a .38 special revolver. I'm in my mid 60's and don't feel I could justify the expense of a S&W 52. I am always glad to see others publish/share their work with the .38 special here, so I can get any edge I can for my .38 special revolver loads.
Outpost75
Glad to see you are having great results with the REM-UMC cases. I bought 200 cases of .38 spl REM-UMC a while back and am loading them for matches only.
Back in the late 1970's, I shot on a police combat league and we bought our wadcutters from a fellow club member. Even though we were only using 2.8grs. of 231..that guy casted those things HARD. Worse case of leading you ever saw! I tried to tell him about chamber pressure and obturation..but being only a kid at the time, he brushed me off. Well, that soured me on wadcutters..though I was just as wrong blaming that bullet style on leading. Never dreamed I would ever own a .38 wadcutter mould. Fast forward some thirty odd years...and now I own a bunch of e'm. I have a circa 1905 Colt Bisley 71/2" in .38 Colt, that just loves the Ideal 358344. There is just something in getting an old gun to shoot one hole groups using a bullet dropped from an equally old mould!
Remington still sells a 38sp 148gr lead wadcutter match that they call "targetmaster" The manuf. part number is AR38S3 and it has two cannelures. Are these cases similar to the WC brass of times gone by?
If anyone is interested in the rem wadcutter ammo, you can get on the "notify" list with target sports usa. This is being made and it shouldn't take long to get an opportunity to spend money. I have found good brass a bit scarce and hoard what little I have. This would be another (spendy) option.
Hit the jackpot today at my local gun club's swap meet. I got 3 boxes of Albert's 146gr Hydra-Shok wadcutters and 1 box of Albert's 148gr DE wadcutters for $80. That's 2,000 bullets at $.04 each. Got them from a relative of one of the 2 guys who designed the Hydra-Shok.
Don
NRA Certified Metallic Cartridge Reloading Instructor
NRA Life Member
This is an outstanding thread.
THANK YOU Char-Gar and Outpost75 for sharing your very valuable knowledge.
I've always felt that some type of reamer could be used to remove some of the taper from 38 Special cases and the Sinclair neck turner mentioned by Outpost may be my solution.
And as Outpost did, I also pulled some wadcuuter bullets to check how much the brass was sizing the bullet down with my set up. Using WC cast in a RCBS mold and sized to .359" and seated in WC casings, I was getting .358" pulled bullets. My alloy is in the 10-11 BHn range which may be a bit hard but for simple logistics it will do. That setup is working pretty well in a variety of revolvers, again simple logistics dictates some compromise but I can live with that.
I really need to find a better 38 Special expander/powder funnel for my 550B.
Has anyone tried to talk to Dillon about the problem?
Dale53
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
My first inclination was to take the Dillon expander for a 40 S&W and turn it down to the proper dimensions for 38 Special.
Outside neck turning with the case wall supported by a tight-fitting, lubricated pilot is MUCH better than trying to inside mouth ream, UNLESS the external case wall is forced into and firmly supported by a DIE, otherwise the reamer will just follow the existing hole, whether or not of uniform wall thickness, and only accentuates the errors.
Either way whether inside mouth reaming or outside neck turning the case wallk must be firmly supported by either an internal pilot, which is a forced-fit, lubricated to prevent galling, or its outside wall held in a size die, so that the result is a concentric neck wall. Otherwise the entire exercise is a waste of time!
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Outpost, how do you pick the size for the internal pilot?
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Thanks !!
If case mouth wall is thicker than 0.011" consider a .3575" pilot, because if outside turning cut is enough to clean up the full circumference of the case mouth, you will get some relief of residual hoop stress in the case wall. Also depends upon sized outside diameter produced by of your sizing die and state of work hardening if you are not using unfired virgin brass!
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BP | Bronze Point | IMR | Improved Military Rifle | PTD | Pointed |
BR | Bench Rest | M | Magnum | RN | Round Nose |
BT | Boat Tail | PL | Power-Lokt | SP | Soft Point |
C | Compressed Charge | PR | Primer | SPCL | Soft Point "Core-Lokt" |
HP | Hollow Point | PSPCL | Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" | C.O.L. | Cartridge Overall Length |
PSP | Pointed Soft Point | Spz | Spitzer Point | SBT | Spitzer Boat Tail |
LRN | Lead Round Nose | LWC | Lead Wad Cutter | LSWC | Lead Semi Wad Cutter |
GC | Gas Check |