Carbide dies.

[seppos]

I am not aware about the price rate of the carbide swaging dies on the market.
I asume that they cost a bit more than the steel ones.
As it happens this friend of mine makes rock drills and they use carbide inserts in the drills.
Those might be suitable for swaging die use, so I was thinking...

S

[reed1911]

General cost on carbide dies is 2500.00-4000.00 a set depending on cal.

[seppos]

You think that if there will be carbide dies available , lets say in a price range of 1500 USD retail, there would be any markets?

S

[dragon813gt]

I can't imagine why there wouldn't be at that price. People pay that now for non carbide.

[just bill]

I've talked to this gentleman about swaging equipment and carbide dies, he makes dies for long range shooters, Eazor is one who comes to mind. Last time I talked to him, he had a 14 ogive on his bench to sell. Most of the time email doesn't answer, but his phone does.


DETSCH Custom Bullet Dies350 West Creek RoadSaint Marys, PA 15857(814) 834-3035Cell: (814) 594-2032david@diemaker.ushttp://diemaker.us/

Bill

[seppos]

Yes.
I am aware of Detch and Ulrich.
They make exelent dies, but as you said they tend to be busy at work.

S

[Valornor]

Carbide has many advantages over tool steel. For one the coefficient of friction is lower, which makes bullets easier to eject. I could see this being a big advantage when using a point forming die. Also means it's easier to swage, so less force to accomplish the same amount of work. Not to mention carbide is harder than steel, but I doubt anyone does enough hobby level swaging to wear out a set of properly cared for steel dies.

I am not sure I'd buy a full set of carbide Dies, I couldn't see the need for carbide in a core swage die, but for point forming operations or for drawing operations I could see where carbide would really be nice.

Down side to cabride is you you need to have a plung EDM or grind it to machine it and it is brittle. Most commercial dies have a carbide insert presses into a steel body.

[seppos]

Yes. Precisely.
The current carbide die makers do it exacly like that. The point form die is the actual carbide die and the rest are steel so I am not inventing anything new actually.

Also.. the point forming die has an insert in these current designs.

S

[Valornor]

Ah, gotcha. Wonder what makes these die sets that much more expensive.

[GerryM]

nope no true in my sets they are all carbide, simonson. detsch
The wear factor is the key. Carbide last.s a lot longer.

[seppos]

Sorry.. Ulrich and Niemi uses inserts. Ulrich has the insert in point form and core seat die.

Weather it is only insert or the whole die is carbide does not bring any extra value as the part vulnerable to wear could be handled with insert.
It is only poor economics to make something from gold if gold plating is enough.

S

[GerryM]

Carbide die will make millions of bullets Tool steel wears a lot quicker. If you only going to make a few 100,000 then tool steel is good enough.
tool steel dies will get a large pressure ring when they wear. Carbide dies take a lot longer to wear.
If your going to be a PRO bullet maker then Carbide dies are the way to go. Both make very good bullets Carbide dies need less bullet Lube .
There, s advantage,s to carbide dies in many ways.

[Utah Shooter]

I believe Dave listed above uses carbide all his dies. I however am not sure if they are inserts. I would think so.

[aaronraad]

Sorry.. Ulrich and Niemi uses inserts. Ulrich has the insert in point form and core seat die.

Weather it is only insert or the whole die is carbide does not bring any extra value as the part vulnerable to wear could be handled with insert.
It is only poor economics to make something from gold if gold plating is enough.

S

I saw an interesting carbide die the other month produced by Larry Blackmon at some stage during his career. Basically a full diameter body M-type carbide die, but with a steel threaded sleeve 'locked' onto the carbide tenon section to screw into the ram. I'm not sure how much work the die had done, but it looked to be in good condition. Could be a way to avoid post-press-fit lapping to final diameter of the carbide 'insert', if limited to low pressure and careful handling?

I guess Larry decided to have a go at some stage, but decided to stick with steel. If I get some more details/history and images of the die, I'll post a new thread.

[seppos]

That would be nice. Dont know about Blackmons operation, but maybe he has so much to do with his regular setup that the widening of line is not needed.

S

[laveritt]

I have Niemi and Detsch carbide dies. To the best of my knowledge all their carbide dies (core seating die & point-up die) use carbide inserts. Their core swage dies aren't typically carbide.

[DukeInFlorida]

Don't lose track of the fact that NITRIDING the dies will make them virtually glass hard on the working surfaces, at a much lower cost than carbide.

BT Sniper makes good quality tools with nitrided surfaces. They work very well for the tens of thousands of bullets I have made so far. And, nitrided tools aren't brittle like carbide tools are. EXPLODE a set of carbide tools and see if the manufacturer will replace them for free.

[M.A.D]

Ive successfully made one carbide point form die.. It took a year of experimenting too get it done.. Sadly, i still have a .308, .375, .458, .510 and two .70's to go.. Other then that, NEVER AGAIN

[laveritt]

Another factor is resale value. Carbide dies hold their value much better than do steel dies.

Carbide does cost more, but your net cost of ownership is normally cheaper.