Moonshine question.

[Bloodman14]

OK, so I'm watching "MythBusters" (I love that show!), and they are doing an episode on moonshine dangers (explosions, fires, etc.), while the Build team is testing using 'shine for fuel. Adam and Jamie went to the trouble of getting a distilling permit so that they could do the episode on TV in a legal sense. I did a quick search on the 'net, and even went to the Treasury Dept.'s website, but I can't seem to find the answer to this question; if a glass of beer equals a glass of wine equals a shot of hard liquor, why is distilling liquor illegal without a permit, but brewing beer or fermenting wine legal? At what point would a permit be required? My interest is in using it as an automotive fuel. Yeah, yeah. Seriously, a friend of mine brought me a sample, I took one small sip, and thought my stomach was going to melt. Is it efficient enough to use it in a heating system?

[Bob in St. Louis]

"Subscribed"... just for morbid curiosity.

[2wheelDuke]

Distillation is the difference. I forget the limit, but you can ferment beer and wine to a certain amount before you have to be licesned . There's a whole bunch more hoops to jump through if you wished to actually distill for beverage instead of fuel. Supposedly the fuel permit is very easy to get, but you're supposed to be able to prove that you've "denatured" the alcohol and rendered it un-drinkable.

Supposedly it's legal to distill thing like water and essential oils, but that's just from what I've read online. I've also read that there's never any proof that they're distilling more than just water on the "Moonshiners" TV show so that there's no actual crime being filmed.

[sparky45]

As always it's about TAXES!!

[44man]

You can't distill one drop without a license from the feds. It is purely tax money. Distillers have to sell to the gov't and buy it back at inflated prices. They make tons of money.
You can make 200 gallons of beer or wine for each member in your house each year. We are trying to get distilling legal too.
I have no idea about fuel. But it still is not a good fuel, gas is better. To get rid of water takes many stages and you wind up with little for the effort. You lose with the heat needed.
I do make small amounts now and then for me but never sell any or you will see bars.

[44man]

Distillation is the difference. I forget the limit, but you can ferment beer and wine to a certain amount before you have to be licesned . There's a whole bunch more hoops to jump through if you wished to actually distill for beverage instead of fuel. Supposedly the fuel permit is very easy to get, but you're supposed to be able to prove that you've "denatured" the alcohol and rendered it un-drinkable.

Supposedly it's legal to distill thing like water and essential oils, but that's just from what I've read online. I've also read that there's never any proof that they're distilling more than just water on the "Moonshiners" TV show so that there's no actual crime being filmed.

I agree, just water. Shine does not pour like that. Corn does not convert to sugar like they show.

[too many things]

44 is 100% correct its same with the marry grass all about tax .
making shine is not easy. its like making shot takes a long time to get it right . the TV shows are BS it don't work that way
took me 10yrs to get it right.
Oh it don't burn unless you get 180 or better and that is very hard to do 190 is the best you could get. . 200 BS unless it is a full closed system , and 5 min in the air it would be 190 again

[swheeler]

When I lived in Arkansas I bought and drank a couple gallons from a still just across the line in Oklahoma. It was pretty much just pure alcohol, would burn with a blue flame and was not smooth at all, had a hint of "tequilla" flavor to me so I mixed it. 35.00 per gallon in an old plastic milk jug. Last one I bought I took the guy a large softshell, think he gave me the gallon for 30 bucks, miss the trot lining, shine not so much.

[walltube]

but there is some interesting history about Americans and their whiskey. How did it begin? Blame it all on those Anglo-Saxon immigrants way back to the 17th century. HAR!

Just how volatile the taxation of private distillation of spirituous liquors in U.S. of A.? Search: history of "The Great Whiskey Rebellion".

Repeal of the Volstead Act, popularly known as 'prohibition', was not about FDR suffering bouts of guilt over the continued denial of Citizen John Doe not having an ounce or two of whiskey, it was about needed Fed tax revenue to pay for the "New Deal".

Perhaps our Canadian friends here will chime in on this very subject. It was a profitable and unlawful venture for those daring Canadians to "rum run" Canadian made whiskey across the Great Lakes to the U.S.A. The whiskey, once safely south of the CanAm border, the main American in charge of Canadian whiskey "deliveries", and one of FDR's fave drinking pals\generous donor to Frank's political machine, was one Joe Kennedy. That be JFK and bro Teddy K's pappy.

Lastly, home brewers have that illustrious Cracker, James Earl Carter, to thank for removing restrictions on home brewers.

Cheers, Ya'll...
Wt.

[Bloodman14]

This is interesting. I had thought to experiment with the fuel part of this, drinking it is out of the question. How does one go about 'denaturing' it? The reason I ask here is that I discovered in a search of this forum that a few of you brew your own, and I want to get a 'plain English' explanation. Thanks much.

[jmort]

Add something toxic to it. A small amount of alcohol "fuel treatment" would work.

[Geezer in NH]

Taxes, see the whiskey rebellion in history

[rancher1913]

had a friend way back in a hollow deep in central virginia that made the best peach shine, it tasted like warm peach water, no bite but what a kick. you had to know him or you would never get back to his place with out an accident. my landlord had me drive him one weekend and we picked up a few bottles( van was stuffed) never thought about getting cought and big tom would have taken the rap if we did get stopped, he just could not see good enough to drive. ran out awhile back but I'm sure the gentleman is long gone from this earth by now.

[DougGuy]

I have had shine from Franklin County VA, and it IS every bit as good as legend says it is. Refrigerated, it goes down smooth and does not burn or bite. It does have a faint smell of tequila but you can also smell corn on your breath even the next day after a good night of passing around the mason jar. I used to have only one rule in my house if you wanted a sip of Franklin County's finest, if you chase it, you are out the door.

Good shine is around 170 proof, better shine is near 180. You have to distill it 3x to get this much alcohol by volume. Legal shine sold in alphabet stores tastes like **** and is nothing like the real thing. Refrigerate it, sip on it once between beers, is a good way to enjoy it. Slugging a shot or two is an easy way to get to the point where you can drink it faster than your system can absorb it and by the time you think you might outta quit, it's WAY TOO LATE!

Shine is ethanol. Pure ethyl alcohol. It's no different than what they make in the ethanol plants. You can drink either one before they add stuff to it.

I quit drinking totally in 2008, I had worn it out. The passionate love of good moonshine is the single memory that lingers still, and if I have to go from the big C or some other ailment, I have it in my soul to kiss my ol' friend goodbye, at least once more.

[jmort]

Here

Alcohol Can Be A Gas
http://www.permaculture.com/
Application Alcohol Fuel Producer 26 USC 5181
https://www.ttb.gov/forms/f511074.pdf

Pretty simple deal.

[brasshog]

I grew up on a sugar cane farm here in the south. We operated the second oldest bar (by three months in 1934 I believe) in the south back in the woods. Shining was a way of life until the 70's when grandpaw died and grandmaw didn't want strangers drunk on the porch anymore once he was gone. It was about 1977 when we closed it. Picture a 10x15 bar with people either gathered around pick-ups and some sitting on the front porch of an old 1917 wood home with a wrap around porch sitting off in the woods amongst sugar cane fields. A nice smoke shed billowing clouds of hickory so as to keep the patrons from starving and to keep em thirsty (sold beef jerky too). We are a dry county in the middle of the bible belt so to say it was a popular joint after the prohibition is an under expression. We couldn't make it a "bar" until the prohibition ended. I can tell you that from what little I have seen of the show it's fake. I know how to condense that vapor and make her 190 on the first pour (it goes downhill from there) and them fella's ain't doing it right. A few years ago a family friend who grew up with my grandad made some "fuel" on a large scale (few hundred gallons). It would have made my great granddaddy proud to say the least. If you ain't grabbing yer chest, trying to suck air that won't come in, and stomping your feet then it ain't good shine...err fuel ! I remember walking around in coveralls with a sticky back pocket stuffed with fresh cut cane headed to the outhouse to "read the Almanac". Oh those were the days. Sorry if I didn't really answer your question. I don't really know anything about legal shine . Just trunks full of liquid gold. Honestly we didn't have to hide it. There weren't any feds around and the only cop was the sheriff who "visited" often.

[swheeler]

If you ain't grabbing yer chest, trying to suck air that won't come in, and stomping your feet then it ain't good shine..
Yep that's zakly what she tastes like! LOL Quite pleasing feelin' when mixed with grape pop though.

[dtknowles]

This is interesting. I had thought to experiment with the fuel part of this, drinking it is out of the question. How does one go about 'denaturing' it? The reason I ask here is that I discovered in a search of this forum that a few of you brew your own, and I want to get a 'plain English' explanation. Thanks much.

You put some gasoline in the container that the distilate is to be gathered in. It is important to add the denaturing agent first to show intent.

Tim

[NoAngel]

I've never understood the fascination with illegal moonshine, and that comes from 4 decades in Dixie. People line up to drink god knows what made by god knows who made god knows where.
I can buy cleaner STRONGER stuff cheaper. I keep a gallon of Golden Grain on hand all the time. Little if ANY moonshine has ever been as potent as 190 proof and I have a reasonably high chance of not getting something made in a radiator but someone with little or no education.


As to the OP, you will waste more time and money trying to make alcohol a viable fuel. The only way to make money at it is to rape the tax payers by getting government subs for your corn, make that into ethanol and destroy your fellow 'merican's weedeater in the process.

I will say, for the record, a 5.5hp Honda will fire right up on Golden Grain. Poured some in a dry carb to see if it'd run....yes it will.

[MT Gianni]

This is interesting. I had thought to experiment with the fuel part of this, drinking it is out of the question. How does one go about 'denaturing' it? The reason I ask here is that I discovered in a search of this forum that a few of you brew your own, and I want to get a 'plain English' explanation. Thanks much.

Buy a diesel, grow a food crop and process it for oil. Pull the glycerin out and you are set. Cheaper and easier but not cheaper than big oil. A friend calculated his ranch needed x gallons of fuel and what he would gain from doing this. Before the state tax stamp required for a fueled vehicle he could make almost twice as much cash by raising hay. This was when diesel was $3.75 a gallon not the current price.