Franken-Ruger

[jroc]

In June at WYSHOT we shall see if we can take a pdog at 400+ yards with the 44 Franken Ruger!

Thats sweet lookin.

[BCgunworks]

Thats sweet lookin.

Thanks. Cranking out more as we speak.

[BCgunworks]

[BCgunworks]

357 magnum is never enough gun.....unless your hunting elk size animals in Africa with a 4" Taurus.

Hahaha. Just for the caliber nay Sayers.

[TCLouis]

Kinda off topic and not, BUT
How about some details on the hunt, BOOLIT/bullet and distance

[BCgunworks]

That's a friend in Africa. He lives there. I know he uses a 180 flat point

[ErnieBishop]

Responded to the PM

[BCgunworks]

41 mag drop confirmation to 152 yards

[ErnieBishop]

After I fired the last shot at 150 yards I sent another one (not one video) and doubled my shot-That made me a happy boy.
Went over to the longer range. Again I was seated with Bog-Gear and made connections at 162 and 261 yards (6" steel). Lot of Fun!
Tried for the 10" at 382 yards but I was close to running out of optic, plus I was aiming so high I was clipping limbs. Time to quit and try another day.
Need to put the Leupold on for longer distances or go to a rifle scope with more internal MOA combined with a MOA reticle.

[GSaltzman]

I bet a 357 Maximum would be an eye opener.

[ErnieBishop]

it would be pretty fast

[BCgunworks]

189 yards with a 357 FR

And a chip shot deer too

[ErnieBishop]

Will get to the details later. Double shoulder shot on the Antelope buck, using Factory Hornady 158 grain XTP's.
It broke through bone pretty good on the off shoulder and found part of the bullet, just under the hide.
Dumped him on the spot.
I do need to switch my brain on as, it got disengaged what I would consider a non-wind issue at 200 yards.
7ish or 8 mph wind moves a revolver bullet a lot more at 200 yards than what I typically use.
More on that with lots of pics later.
I will say this, I am very impressed with what a 357 Magnum 158 XTP does on a double shoulder hit at just under 200 yards.
Going after more does tomorrow, and I will use my FA in 243 Win.
Dan is going to use my 357 Mag FR for a doe also.
Late in the day shot a small whitetail buck from the standing position that was facing me at 40-50 yards....quick shot.
He went down in about 40 yards.

[Ola]

357 magnum is never enough gun.....unless your hunting elk size animals in Africa with a 4" Taurus.

Hahaha. Just for the caliber nay Sayers.

I think .357 is considered minimum caliber for this kind of hunting in South Africa.
Think about it for a moment.. they may let you shoot a >2000 lbs Eland with one..

[BCgunworks]

I think .357 is considered minimum caliber for this kind of hunting in South Africa.
Think about it for a moment.. they may let you shoot a >2000 lbs Eland with one..

The guy in those pics lives in africa. If you follow him on other forums you can see where over the past 10+ years or so that's all he's hunted with. A 4" Taurus 357.

And taken game to elk size with a 180 jacketed flat point.

[Ola]

The guy in those pics lives in africa. If you follow him on other forums you can see where over the past 10+ years or so that's all he's hunted with. A 4" Taurus 357.

And taken game to elk size with a 180 jacketed flat point.

My point was not to bash .357. There are some places where one can hunt really BIG animals with a .357 mag revolver. It might not be ideal for the job, but it can do the job if the bullet hits the right spot.

That tells something about the cartridge considering the fact the Professional Hunters want their customers to succeed in their hunts. Only wounding the animal costs as much..in many cases thousands of dollars. Loosing animals because of unsuitable caliber would not be very "professional" and the customers would be quite unhappy.

[GLynn41]

while I have not read all the posts (I will} -- to me the discussion got a little ugly for no reason-- I for one am glad to see the R&D as well as ability in the FR project-- I will not use a .357 on deer but not because it will not kill them --- too little for me-- I want to be able to take a raking shot if I want or chest on
and yes you can shoot too far-my limit is 100 yds for some of my 6 guns-- 125 or so for scoped TCs
To me a deer is easy to kill as long as I do my part-wounded is vastly different--
also I have killed pushing 200 deer-that would be with MZL--bow, handgun and Rifle-- mostly MZL and Rifle- not as many as some for which I take my hat off to them for that blessed attainment -good on you-but "I have seen a thing or two" my self _I hunt swamps and bottoms in West Tn--
last thought is a 40 cal 230 grain boolit @1300 fps-- or a .41 230gr @1300 not good enough? but a .44(.429) 230- 250 @ 1300 is-- yes I know you can go up to 300 + but do we have to have that for 90% of what we do? certainly you do if you want it--properly placed boolits from say cal .40 200 gr and up to the .44 300s are plenty for deer (-- and the ONE boar I have shot..) with a well placed shot-- the .454 .475 and 500 are on another level-- my sons 500 GNR is always an education to shoot--
The HeleryBeast is on the move and there are more behind her-- we need to disagree and point to where we as cast boolit guys can do better--but never to the point of losing our unity for the 2ND amend and a against the DIMS-- as well as the joy of our hobby and sport mho

[BCgunworks]

He double shouldered at just under 200 yards. I'm willing to bet it would do quite well frontal or angled

[ErnieBishop]

Buck I shot last night. 40-50 yards straight on. Standing shot. Crosshairs was right of center at the shot. Bullet went more than halfway the length of his body. Think it ended up in his intestines.
Plus what Chris said about the antelope.
I respect your choices for cartridges.



http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j4...psbilri6po.jpg

[ErnieBishop]

I haven't had time to give the full story. Wrote this up late last night, early this morning. The facts are the facts, whether you like/agree with them or not.

I made up my mind what I was going to use for Wyoming deer and antelope this year about a week before I would hunt. My 357 Magnum Ruger GP-100…AKA Franken-Ruger had only killed steel out to 500 yards. In fact, I had not shot it since that time. I knew I couldn’t use the 170 grain Sierra Tournament Master bullet that I had a 100 or so rounds loaded.
After seeking the advice of several, I chose Hornady ammo, using the 158 grain XTP Hollow Point (.206 BC).
Muzzle velocity is 1471 from my 15” barrel.
The barrel is long on this, since it was special purposed for the 500 yard goal.
For hunting I would probably go with an 8-10, if I did it all over again.
But this sucker shoots so good, I don’t want to change anything on it. Dan Ekstrom, a good friend, zeroed it at 100 yards, and at the same time shot his smallest group ever with a revolver – 1.5” from the seated position using Bog-Gear tripod and the PSR top. He really likes that 357 Mag FR, to the point of being giddy.

At 150 yards the impact velocity where I hunt antelope is 1161 fps, 175 yards=1124fps, 200 yards=1090fps, 225 yards=1061fps, and at 250 yards the impact velocity is 1035fps.
So at 189 yards, the impact velocity is approximately 1100fps.

It takes 16 MOA for a 250 yard shot and 10 MOA for a 200 yard shot with my 357 Mag FR.
As a comparison, it takes 16.25 MOA for my 6.5 WSM XP-100 for an 825 yard shot.
A 5mph full value wind at 200 yards with my 357 FR drifts 6.4 inches.
A 5mph full value wind at 200 yards with my 6.5 WSM drifts .4 of an inch.
My 158 XTP drifts 6 inches more than my 130 grain Berger.

At 200 yards on game, I have never been concerned about a 5mph wind (until this week), while a 5mph wind at 200 is something I need to adjust for with my 357 Mag!
This is where I made my big mistake on my buck antelope.
My “wind brain” was switched to the “off position” when I was preparing to shoot my buck antelope.
Like I said previously, a 5mph wind is nothing in my hunting world.
I went through all of my other checklists to make sure, I was good to go, except wind correction. Full details at the bottom.

The 158 grain XTP Hollow Point is designed to work in the velocity range from 700-1400 fps.
http://www.hornady.com/assets/files/...ts_handgun.pdf
Just for giggles, an Impact Velocity of 700 fps is just beyond 800 yards. I know no one is going hunt game at over 800 yards with this bullet, yet it is designed to work at 700 fps.
From Hornady, they say their bullet will work down to 700 fps.

The working range of impact velocities is a HUGE advantage for the types of use I have been putting my FR through, and to date this bullet has been exemplary on two deer (40-50 yards frontal shot, and 154 yards [not my kill] broadside) and one antelope (broadside double shoulder shot 189 yards).

Let’s talk about accuracy of this platform. When you have revolver capable of shooting a sub MOA group at 500 yards you have something special. This Franken Ruger is capable of that.
When you can consistently make hits at 200 and 250 yards on steel with shots only a couple inches apart while sitting on the ground and using Bog-Gear-I’m a happy camper. The scope is a Leupold 2-8 VX-3 (1/4 MOA clicks) and it has more internal MOA than any other LER scope. I added 40 MOA through the Burris Signature Zee Rings to boot when preparing for my 500 yard challenge. Dialing to shoot is something I do all the time. Using drop charts is something I do on a regular basis. I use high quality Laser Rangefinders, so I can know my exact distance-not a big deal here.

The revolver is capable, my field rest is capable, the ammo is capable, and the scope is capable. This leaves the variable of the shooter.
Sometimes he is capable, and other times he is not. Isn’t this true of any type of hunting?
Are 357 magnums capable of cleanly killing past 50 yards, 100, yards, 150 yards, 200 yards, and 250 yards.
To date, I can personally say, “Yes” to 189 yards.
The real proof of a bullet is what it actually does on game, not test gelatin, newspaper or water jugs.
These other things can be good references, and be good for comparing.
But, nothing is better than tissue and bone. It is the true test.
That being said, I am not claiming these few kills are the all in all, but it is a good start, combined with some other data coming from guys who are using 357 FR’s and taking game out to about 150 yards on more than one occasion with good results.
I am not saying, you should use one to hunt with.
I am not saying you should hunt at distance with a revolver.

Now let’s get to the shot. We had made a long stalk, and the two bedded bucks had no clue we were there. We were on a small saddle with a small hill to our right.
The buck I was shooting at was not broadside, but partially facing away from me or quartering away with his head to my right. I was facing south and he was facing southwest. At the shot, I expected him to go down, but instead he got up. I saw, or thought I saw and impact behind him, and I asked if I shot high or Dan told me I shot high (can’t remember which). High was the call, and I trusted the call. I trust my spotter, and Dan does a good job. Both bucks were up now, but not sure where the threat came from, I pulled the hammer back, and aimed low from the call, and my shot went exactly where I was aiming from a vertical standpoint.
My mind was racing, trying to figure out what was going on.
At the same time both bucks began to slowly trot off to our right. I immediately grabbed my Bog-Gear and Franken-Ruger and ran to the right, got on top of the hill, and set up for shot # 3 if I get one.
What we did not recognize at the moment was this: First shot was a hit, with the vertical being spot on, BUT as I have noted already, I was not holding off or dialing for wind. Shot one hit the front of the shoulder, and exited about the middle of the neck (Remember he was quartering away from me on the first shot). Shot #2 hit him also. I aimed low because we thought my first shot was high, and the second shot took hide off of the front of his leg.
So far, two shots. First one probably would have killed him. Blood was filling up in the front of his chest cavity (we didn’t know this at the time).
IF, IF, IF I would have accounted for wind, it would have been one and done at 247 yards.
But that is not what happened. This has been burning on me since Monday.
I was told I needed to aim high for shot #3, and I shot high and this time I clearly saw my impact.
NOW, I knew where to aim. From the time of the first two shots at 247 yards, as they moved to the right, they were now at 189 yards, and he is broadside now. Right after the third shot, I pulled the hammer back, I had not adjusted from my 247 yard dope, but I knew where my last shot was, and just used the reticle. I knew he was dead now. All of this time. I had been aiming for a behind the shoulder shot. I wasn’t trying for a shoulder shot. Dropped him where he stood.
My mind was still racing over the events of the last 30 seconds or so. Then Dan, says, “You shot him in the neck (speaking about my last shot).” I’m thinking to myself, “No way!” as I knew where I had been holding, but I could see blood all over his neck. I was not happy, but he was down.

When we went down to him, Dan noticed the blood spray from the last shot was about 10 feet long. He couldn’t believe a handgun bullet could do that at 189 yards from a double shoulder shot, and he was right.
What told the story was the autopsy. My two impacts on his shoulder were about 2” inches apart from each other, exactly side by side. One was from the first shot, that exited out his neck (The first shot), and the second one (Shot #4), basically centered (maybe a tad forward) on his shoulder, went through both shoulders, and broke a lot of bone on both sides, especially the off side. Part of the bullet was just under the hide on the offside. You can see it in the picture.
When I hit him with the double shoulder shot, the pooling blood from shot #1 exited his mouth and his neck. The spray width and length was impressive.

Folks, these are the facts. I was not nervous about this shot. I was pleased about our stalk and knew he was within my capability and the FR’s capability. I expected there to be one shot. I was sure I was going to kill him with one shot-I was wrong. Because I stayed on it, there was a good ending, teachable moments, and seeing that XTP wreak havoc was very pleasing.
The field rest was sufficient, the gun was sufficient, and the ammo was sufficient, the rest of my shooting skill set was sufficient, but the wind part of my brain was not.
I will not forget those 30 seconds. It has humbled me and taught me.
Would I attempt another 250 yard shot all over again in the same conditions?
Yes, in a heartbeat I would. I promise you though, I would be checking the wind.
Pics are from the offside shoulder.