Need help in ID this ammo - very strange Primer

[orisolo]

Hi Guys,
I got 31 of this round and have no idea what it is.
It is either a rim fire or the primer is under the copper?
It measure 0.485
Can you help in ID this ammo
Thank you
Ori

[OS OK]

A .46 Hammond Carbine is as close as I can get with the limited dimensions you give.
It's listed as a rimfire but the base of that one I've never seen.
What is:
OAL
Rim dia.
Base dia.
Case length
Case mouth dia.
rim thickness

I have a 'Cartridges of the world' book but this one is a riddle?

[orisolo]

I will get more dimensions tomorrow.
I have seen lots of brass cases in my business but never seen anything like this one especially the base.
I'm not even sure if this is a rim fire or it has a "primer" under the copper?
Very Strange.

[OS OK]

It looks like a limited experimental production of a round that used to be rimfire and this is an attempt at holding a primer in without press fitting them as we do now. I dunnoh?
Whatever it is it is a good riddle. Should be interesting to know the identity and history of it.

[380AUTO]

44 Henry?

[w5pv]

Strange looking dude



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[Wayne Smith]

In the mix of the transition from rimfire to centerfire there were a number of different central primer inside the case designs that would look like that. Several of them got to production. If it is a center fire cartridge it is a rare bird.

[jsizemore]

Does that spell S.A.W. in that last photo? Maybe Smith And Wesson?

Could be that the indented middle was an attempt at allowing the action to close or revolve without binding. Added benefit would be more priming compound at the rim and primer flame front directed at the powder charge. I'm just guessing.

[Thumbcocker]

I have seen .45/70's that were center fire but had the primer inside the case Bennet IIRC. Could that be a Schofield .45 inside primed?

[mac60]

Ori - S.A.W. is Sage Ammunition Works. The cartridge certainly looks to me like a .56-50 Spencer rimfire cartridge - the measurement you gave doesn't fit though. Need more info to go on. The cartridges are collectible though.

[NyFirefighter357]

Looks like 50-45 Peabody http://www.gunauction.com/buy/5423136

[mac60]

Looks like 50-45 Peabody http://www.gunauction.com/buy/5423136

Good work. I believe you nailed it.

[maxreloader]

Ori - S.A.W. is Sage Ammunition Works. The cartridge certainly looks to me like a .56-50 Spencer rimfire cartridge - the measurement you gave doesn't fit though. Need more info to go on. The cartridges are collectible though.

It's centrally primed and they are very collectible... the ones I had sold for $40+/- each. It all depends on the caliber, rarity, and condition

[mac60]

It's centrally primed and they are very collectible... the ones I had sold for $40+/- each. It all depends on the caliber, rarity, and condition

Cartridges of the World gives the info that all the Spencer cartridges (.56-56, .56-52, .56-50 & .56-46) are rimfires. The measurement Ori gave does not come anywhere close to fitting any of the Spencer cartridges. NyFirefighter357 thinks it may be a .50-45 Peabody - I think he is probably right.

[KCSO]

That is a centerfire with an inside primer like the early 50-70 and such. Peabody would be my guess too.

[mac60]

The link provided for the .50-45 Peabody rimfire cartridge for sale has a complete description including all the dimensional measurements. If Ori would take a look at it, maybe we could get to the bottom of this.

[orisolo]

Wow, it sure looks like .50-45 Peabody.
Ill get later today to the shop and pull the caliper to see the exact size.
The measurement I gave earlier was made by one of my guys and now I think it's wrong.
The picture in the auction page definitely looks the same, even the marks on the side of the case looks the same.
I'll report once i get more info.
if they are $30-$40 a piece is is a nice jackpot as i have 31 of those.
Thank you everyone.

[TXGunNut]

Glad I showed up late for this party! First thought was 44RF but was just a SWAG.

[maxreloader]

the crimp marks on the side of the case are an indication of this being centrally primed as stated earlier. i had a sealed box of 50's from Frankford Arsenal that were made for the 1873 navy that were centrally primed. i have seen single rounds go for $75 and over. the SAW headstamp would be the clue to follow along with overall dimensions.

[salpal48]

That has all the Earmarks 56/50 spencer Internal primed Centerfire . from Sage. . Collectables Yes. Pricey No. $3.00 to $5.00 @ cartridges shows. . Alway available @shows