Who has wierdest mil surp rifle

[Morgan Astorbilt]

fourarmed, They sound really interesting. Any chance of getting some photos up?
Morgan

[azduke]

Well my favorite milsurp is one that I've since 2000.Got it for a good price after a friend and co-worker got it at a local gunshow,he paid $350 for it and after finding that I was right on how much it would cost to restore,he sold it to me for$10.it was used as a drill rifle and had the on/off switch welded and dewelded.it is a Remington 1903-A3 Springfield,am in the process of getting the correct Remingtonstock for it.could not find the history on it untill tis past June 6th.Was talking to a friend/neighbor about D-Day and the dad took part in the invasion,he mentioend that he carried a 1903-A3 in the invasion,and drilled him on the the serial number in which he remembered,and it just so happened that the one that I have was the one he carried.

[Ricochet]

What're the odds of that?!

[fgd135]

I also collect and shoot Russian Berdan II rifles; I have five of them, and shoot them too, well, most of em. My favorite shooter is an 1882 Sestroretsk-made rifle.
Never have fired them with smokeless, but have excellent results duplicating the original Russian military loading using a 370 grain rn paper patch bullet and 75-77 grains of Goex 3fg (with about .2" compression) in Buffalo Arms cases. I had the mould custom made, it casts a .422" diameter slightly tapered bullet, I wrap it with 9# 100% cotton vellum to .430" and use a lube cookie of SPG, averages 1450 fps at the muzzle and shoots to point of aim. This is with 30:1 alloy.
I also use 2 different Lyman bullets, a 365 gr plain base rn bullet out of mould #427103, which casts out to about .429", and another #427103 which casts a 340 grain .426" rn bullet with a gas check base. I don't know why Lyman used the same number for two different bullet designs , but there you go.
I don't own any other really oddball mil rifles, except maybe a Wz 91/98/25, an 8x57 version of the Mosin Nagant made by Poland in the 1920s.

[Gungrubber]

The Best I can do For odd Rifles is My Tc Orman turkish forestry convert Berthier and my Italian Vetterli Conversion




GG

[floodgate]

fgd135:

That #427103 (also listed as #424103 in some of the Ideal Handbooks) is something of an "off again / on again" item; it was made as #427103 through 1904 in the old fixed-block Ideal moulds, with plain base and three grease grooves at 365 grs. "....for the .42 caliber Russian rifles..." and then for a while in the 1950s and again in the 1970s as a special order item, in the Lyman-style separate block moulds. The 1958 "Handbook of Cast Bullets" pictures it with 3 grooves and a definite gas-check base, but in the 1973 "Cast Bullet Handbook" (as posted on Castpics), the photographic illustration looks like a slight bevel base, possibly slightly short-cherried - but it is listed as weighing 400 grs!

Incidentally, has anyone seen or shot one of the original "trapdoor" Berdan I rifles?

floodgate

[fgd135]

Thanks for the info on the 427103. looks like I have one of each mould. The plain base larger bullet is definitely a better shooting bullet for the Berdan II rifle, at least in soft lead. Maybe the gas check version was intended for hard lead, or for another rifle, I think it would be ideal (no pun intended) in a .41 Swiss.
As far as the Berdan I goes, I know of several in collections; don't know anyone that has fired one, though. For one thing, there were very very few Berdan I rifles made, so they tend to be very expensive and are in "collections"; secondly, well, there isn't any commercial ammo available and so they just don't get shot by those collectors.
A Berdan II rifle in "shooting" condition. typical mismatched sn infantry rifle with 30-60% finish averages anywhere from $500-$1000 these days, where as a Colt Berdan I in similar condition, IF you could locate one, would be $3000-$5000. Not too many people shoot those expensive things. Last time I saw a Colt Berdan I rifle for sale it was @$10,000 in excellent condition. (Only Colt made the Berdan 1, which puts it beyond the normal BP collector interest and into the category of a "Colt" collectible).

[scb]

I don't have it anymore, and it still makes me sick to think about it, it was a 16x16x9.3 74R Luftwaffe drilling. I bought it from a gentleman who took it from a German flier who was running away from a crash landed Ju88. After selling it he suffered a bad case of sellers remorse. Being an old friend I let him have it back. Some things are worth more than guns. I only owned it for 2 weeks.

[wonderwolf]

I've loaded for 6.5 carcano
but the oddest one yet is prolly 6.5 JAP...as I had to make brass from 22-250 and turn it on the lathe. I however hope its not the strangest one I have to load for yet.

I would like a

43 rolling block
Martini henry 577/450
1888 commission rifle as well

[Whitworth]

I have two of these -- 1941 Johnsons -- not so weird, but not so common. Here's a pic of one of them:

[218bee]

Morgan, I really like your New York Militia 50/70 mainly because I've been looking for one for quite some time. Last one escaped me a day a few months ago. Dang!!! I assume you shoot "black" in it??? Wondering what the bore slugs at? Know of any for sale??? Great thread guys keep it going...I love old/wierd..its been many years since I bought a new gun of any kind.......Nick

[Morgan Astorbilt]

Nick, I have shot the "Holy Black" in it, but usually use smokeless. Just don't like the cleanup, and save all my BP for my cannons.
Morgan

[Duce]

Whitworth the 1941 Johnsons make me drool, I can only envy you. But somewhere around this house I have the oldest of all and I do not know if it can be beat. Its a hand size granite rock that good for about 30 feet.

[tinsmith]

This might get a booby prize for wierd.
Back in 1970, I purchased a German Dreyse Needle Rifle. It was dated 1861/1862 and was in very good condition. I spent $100 for it. The .60 cal. bore had four very deep grooves and looked almost square! I developed a combustable paper cartridge using a .670 soft lead round ball on top of a 16 ga. shotgun fiber wad. Mini ball lube was placed between the ball and wad. The wad was slightly drilled to accept a percussion cap. ( A toy cap gun cap was placed in the percussion cap to ensure ignition.) Behind the wad was a load of FFg black powder and a thin card wad to enclose the case. I don't remember how long it took to make the ammo, but it was definately time consuming! Anyway, I shot it and really got some looks at the local gun club!
After owning the Dreyse for about a year, I sold it for $150. I felt good about my sale at the time. I just wonder what that old gun would fetch today? I just looked and found the one remaining cartridge tucked away in my cartridge collection.
My thanks to the person who started this thread. It brought back memories.

[Leef]

Sorta weird, I guess...I just got a Swiss Milbank Amsler...not terribly rare, but from what I read, they're all in .41 Swiss (rimfire). But mine's .43 Mauser -- confirmed by barrel slugging and chamber cast. So that's what's weird, the caliber. It shoots fine with a mild load of 25 grs. 4198 and 370 gr .439" boolit at 1,250 fps.

Anyone know why this oddball is that caliber?

Also, I noted a post re Russian Berdan II rifles. I have one and shoot it with 4198 loads. So far, of the dozen or more BP cartridge guns I own, I've never had to use BP in any -- 4198 with corn meal filler works fine.

Now...if I could get around to making paper cartridges for the Chassepot...

[dominicfortune00]

I recently bought a 1905 Model Ross Rifle made in 1909.

Really smooth straight pull in full original military condition.

And before anyone says it, the bolt WILL NOT blow out of the receiver in the rearward direction upon firing a round.

That was the 1910 Model Ross Rifle that had that particular problem with a misassembled bolt.

[Four Fingers of Death]

Gun grubber, I had one of those Turkish Forestry Rifles, but couldn't get any three shot clips (I have a good supply of five shot clips, but the three shot ones dried up, so I got rid of it. The Berthier is pretty weird, but I walked into a shop in Sydney a few weeks ago and bought 100 Brass cases. I never thought that I would be able to do that.



The MAS ain't so rare, but it is odd, shoots like a champ though!


I have a Remington made Mosin Nagant 1917 which is not so rare, but is in absolutely original condition, I'm 6'3" and it comes way up to my chest, longgggggggg, I had to juggle to get it into the safe I had at the time, ended up cutting a small hole in the top.

I also have a Ross in very good condition. It was imported as a drill rifle, but the Canuk armorer obviously didn't want to destroy the rifle. He removed the barrel and drilled through the chamber a 1/4" in, leaving the action untouched. The barrel has been re-chambered and re-threaded and the wood shortened and the metal furniture re-fitted. It is not obvious, but it is 1/2" shorter than normal. That's weird. First Ross I have ever seen. The rifle is registered of course, but the Firearms registry insist it is a Rossi not a Ross.



Business end look the same as original


No4 Mk1, converted to 7.62 by the Lithgow Small Arms Factory. They converted a lot for target shooters, but this is a military conversion, a trial run to see if they would be suitable for the Citizen's Military Forces (reserves), but the project never went ahead, not many made apparently. It has only fired 200 odd rounds, but the previous owner filed off the short range peep from the Singer Sight (the dill should have jusy removed it) and used a Central Target Peep Sight (see second pic).

[bruce drake]

Ok, This is a Franken Gun but she shoots. I just finished putting a Springfield two-groove barrel on an Type 99 Arisaka action. I just put 4 shots down her barrel yesterday after fitting a Lyman rear sight to it. All were touching at 25yds with the 13gr Red Dot load over 170gr 311291. I'd be interested to play some more with it once I have more time. I had to run home and cook dinner for the dear wife due it being Mother's Day. She enjoyed her meal and I got to go shooting too!

Bruce

[MGD]

Have no uncommom calibers but a 1905 Ross sporter, and A German G-43 with Z-4 scope. And yes I have shot lead through the G-43.

[looseprojectile]

at the gunshow for fifty bucks and wish I hadn't. Didn't know what it was, though I figured it was worth the asking price.
Turned out to be an 1888 Mannlicher straight pull.
Converted to ---------- .22 long rifle. Someone has even converted the boltface and firing pin. It works. About four times the action needed for .22 rimfire. Makes about the same sense as converting an M1 Garand to .22 Hornet .

Life is good