9mm bullets being pulled from case.

[swmass]

Hey all, been reloading 9mm for around 5 years. Switched to cast about a year ago. Recently, I've noticed i have no case tension in my 9mm... I havent changed anything so im not sure why. If the bullets don't get stuck up in my seating die, they are pulled loose from my FCD. Sometime I am able to just pull the bullet right out by hand after seating. Any ideas?

[sparky508]

Bullet diameter? Belling or expanding too much?

[Pine Baron]

What boolit are you loading? which expander plug? Seating depth?

[Walkingwolf]

Type of bullet? I have always had problems with tumble lube bullets. For those I barely bell the case, just enough to get the bullet to start. If you need more bell you can adapt a Lee bell die. Just trim the insert until it only bells, and does not expand. If you are already using a Lee die then just order another insert, you may need to keep the original for other bullets.

[454PB]

The Lee FC dies are known to "post size" cast boolits in some conditions, and that may be what is happening to you. The boolit is actually sized smaller in the FC die resulting in a loose fit in the case.

[mdi]

Whenever there is a fit problem, measure. Measure the bullet's diameter. Measure the case mouth ID after sizing. Case needs to be smaller than the bullet, mebbe .002"-.003". Cast bullets should be .002"+ larger in diameter than groove diameter...

As for the FCD, check bullet fit after seating, before crimping, then toss the FCD...

[runfiverun]

yep the case will spring back but the boolit won't.
if it's happening in the seat die I'd take the die apart and clean it out.
as far as the FCD,,, well they are designed to ruin perfectly good cast boolit loads
from the get-go.

[swmass]

I was getting the problem with the lee 358 125 rf. I'm not sure what to problem was but I got mad, went online and found cabelas having a sale on 9mm. Took a nice 2 hour trip on the bike and picked up 2,000 berrys 115gn round nose for 120 bucks. Been having trouble with cast 9mm from the start. Now I'll have 2,000 rounds to cool down and maybe pick 9mm back up in the future. I cleaned my dies really good and the plated bullets are loading fine. I think I was belling the case mouth too much and my dies were really dirty with lube.. I'll mess with it another time maybe.

[Pine Baron]

swmass,
I load the same bullet for 9MM. PC, sized to .358. I found that I had to use 38 S&W expander plug in place of the 9MM in the LEE PTED. The bullet seating die took some messaging but finally seated and crimped enough to eliminate the FCD. I shoot these in 9MM; Walther CCP, Helwan Cadet (Beretta 1951 clone) and Hi Point 995TS. .38 Special; Taurus 605 and S&W Airweight. Haven't tried .357 Mag. yet.

[DougGuy]

A WELL INTENDED note of caution here about the 9mm.. Boolit/bullet setback can occur when there is not enough crimp or enough case tension. As the round is stripped from the magazine and fed into the barrel, that first good BUMP at the feed ramp CAN AND WILL cause setback if the crimp/case tension is on the loose side.

Being the 9mm operates around 35,000psi max, in this small cartridge even as little as .010" setback can send pressures through the roof. You could very easily and very unexpectedly experience pressures of 60,000psi! Needless to say this much pressure is enough to cause a serious injury or even death in the worst case scenario should the gun KB in the shooter's hands.

Since this thread started with the OP posting what sounded like it could possibly be a recipe for disaster when he describes how loose the boolits are in the case, I winced when I thought about the possibilities and so for this reason I am urging the OP to verify his loads, push on them at the bench, see if you can MAKE the boolit set back and if you can, please DO NOT shoot these rounds until the crimp and tension issues are sorted enough that you can trust the tension to hold the boolit to the chosen COA.

You never know how close you come to an accident, that got prevented....

[Jal5]

Good point well taken Doug.
I think the prior post is spot on. That boolit works for me but with the 38 SW EXPANDER PLUG.

[Walt]

Could be the brass is tired. A friend recently experienced the same problem as the OP. He'd been using the same batch of Blaser Brass cases for quite awhile. He was having trouble with XTPs setting back. Changed to once fired Federal and was good to go.

[blackbike]

Good point well taken Doug.
I think the prior post is spot on. That boolit works for me but with the 38 SW EXPANDER PLUG.

How does a bigger expander plug help in this case?

[Pine Baron]

I THINK, but may be wrong, when using the 9MM xplug, I had to get an extreme flare to get the .358 boolit into the case. I found that it was being swaged below the bell. A FCD only made it worse. IIRC when I pulled the Boolit it had swaged down to .353 or thereabouts, anyway, it failed the push test. Using the .38 S&W plug allowed a smoother, consistent set, and bonus was the seating die crimped enough to eliminate the FCD. Keep in mind this took a lot of trial and error and only works in MY guns, with my loads. YMMV.

[gwpercle]

Loading cast in the 9 mm will give you fits until you get everything all sorted out.
Just taper crimping can size a boolit that fits , to a size that doesn't , and then it's undersized and loose in the case.
I started sizing mine .357 and was very careful in the seating and then extra careful to just remove the flare and no more with the taper crimp die.
Don't throw in the towel , you can get it working, just takes a little finessing to get it sorted out.
In 40 + years of reloading cast boolits , the 9 mm is the only one that made me cuss at it ! And I usually refrain from bad words.

Gary

[noylj]

The Lee FCD is most likely swaging the bullet down in diameter. Lead has no spring-back and brass does.
Measure bullet diameter, seat and crimp, pull bullet and re-measure diameter. I'll bet that the bullet is now 0.0005" under the case ID.
1) Get a larger expander (not case mouth flare, but expander, such that the case ID before seating is 0.001-0.002" smaller than bullet diameter
2) Put the Lee FCD aside and buy a Lee Taper Crimp die.
I never had any more problems with 9x19 than any other cartridge. 0.357-0.359" lead bullets work great--if you don't swage them down during seating.

[MT Chambers]

Forget the FCD and think "case neck tension" from the start, either use a smaller expander or a wider bullet, don't ruin it all by crimping the **** out of it.

[lightload]

To get sufficient bullet pull in 9 mm and 45 auto cases I like to use military brass which is thicker than commercial.

[gloob]

+1 on the 38SW expander plug. Works great and is only 3.00 and change, shipped. Lee is great.

1) Get a larger expander (not case mouth flare, but expander, such that the case ID before seating is 0.001-0.002" smaller than bullet diameter

+1 on this. But a simpler way of saying it is that for a 356 bullet, you want a 356 expander. The spring back after expanding would leave the case just right. Whatever that is would be dependent on the brass, and it would be perfect. It happens to usually be around 1 to 2 mils, but that is really not the goal, IMO. Saying 1-2 mils smaller than bullet diameter is more of a description of what the perfect flare usually ends up as. Sorry, if I am making that too convoluted.

As it so happens the Lee 38SW expander plug is just about exactly 356 in diameter.

NOE used to carry a really nice 356 expander with a 360 step flare. This is what I upgraded to. Maybe they will have some in stock in the future.

For some reason the industry seems to be making expanders way smaller than need be. I find I can load even 355 jacketed bullets with plenty of neck tension using the 356 expander. But if you were particularly paranoid, you might want a 355 expander for a jacketed bullet, whereas the industry seems to want to sell you 353 diameter expanders. Probably for CYA purposes.

For instance the 356/360 NOE plug, when they do have it, is listed under 38 caliber. Intended for 357/38.

I made a custom 401/404 plug for my 40SW cast. That gun has never shot better.

There are plenty of choices in 45 ACP, because of 45 Colt. Similar to how you can buy 38 expanders for 9mm cast. I also use a 452 expander in 45ACP.

How does a bigger expander plug help in this case?

This is a good question. A bigger expander helps in EVERY case of loading cast bullets, IMO. But in the OP's case, I have a feeling he has some undersized bullets and/or somehow has got his crimp set too tight in the seat die, seeing as some of the bullets are sticking in his seating die. If it were just the FCD die (which I'm cringing at the thought of FCD with cast bullets) it could just be a case of thick brass and/or large bullets. I run my cast ammo thru the FCD... when I want to loosen them up before pulling the bullets from a bad batch.

[w5pv]

I use a FCD and set it just so you can see a very small smudge on the case mouth,works for me.