1917 Revolver Horror Stories...

[mtnman31]

The 1917 has been on my bucket list of must haves for while. I need to get more pro-active in finding one.

Great thread.

[Bent Ramrod]

Where's the horror? I don't see a single example where somebody cut the front of the trigger guard off.

[EMC45]

Where's the horror? I don't see a single example where somebody cut the front of the trigger guard off.

That would leave me in Fitz........

[Der Gebirgsjager]

Where's the horror? I don't see a single example where somebody cut the front of the trigger guard off.

Ooooooh.......now THAT would really be bad! The Fitz modification.

DG

[flint45]

1917's are great revolvers wish I still had my colt someone put target sights on it and it was so accurate but needed a new hand couldnt find anyone to work on it back then now Iknow better.But my two Smiths more then make up for it they work like butterd silk!

[StrawHat]

...StrawHat, did you buy yours that way or convert them yourself? The one in the holster looks like it might be a Brazilian from the seal visible on the side...

When I bought them, they had 5 1/2" barrels, numbered to the frames. I always have some spare barrels around and these two had previously been cut to 4". I simply spun out the old and spun in the new! And maybe a little action work, the long actions are pretty smooth without work. The sights are set for 235 grain boolits.

The holstered revolver is indeed a 1917 from the Brazilian contract. It is one of my favorites and that is why I have the carved holster for it and my other 4" 45s.

Kevin

[Outpost75]

Here are some "before and after" pictures of my 1917 "Sewer Pipe" gun, which has since been recylindered and rebarreled to .45 Colt by John Taylor.

Attachment 167970Attachment 167971Attachment 167972Attachment 167973

[Der Gebirgsjager]

Very nice, Outpost75, and certainly some lessons to be learned there. The old barrel didn't shoot badly at all with hardball. I have a 1911 that had a barrel at least as bad as the one you show, but it would just about always hit a 2 lb. coffee can at 25 yards. But I eventually changed it out for a new one just because I couldn't stand to look at it. Seems to me that the Army did a test one time and found that for combat accuracy worn and pitted 1911 barrels were still useable. Looking at the last photo I would say that John Taylor is an accomplished pistolsmith! Can't ask for better than that.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

BIS-pretty neat! Nice workmanship. Well, the bobbed hammer 1917 was an idea that was fashionable during a certain time period that dictated removing anything that could snag on clothing when drawing the weapon. I just decided to leave it as-is, but a replacement hammer could probably be found. Best explanation I can give--some concepts are just kind of nebulous.

DG

Ah yes, the days of a photo of Jeff Cooper which probably made him shudder, in the gunfighter's crouch with gun leveled at hip level. The British went over to a bobbed hammer on late versions of the .38 Enfield revolver, which was carried in a closed holster. The explanation given was that it wouldn't catch on the inside of a tank or other vehicle, but I suspect that the real reason was the inability of wartime contractors more used to cars and sewing machines, to time a good double action trigger pull. Nobody won a war with pistols by that time, and those with experience of arms work were more urgently needed for other things.

Ed McGivern did his revolver shooting feats with Smith and Wessons just the way they came out of the box, in the days of the long-action S&W trigger, and held that modifications couldn't improve on them. He thought the Fitz conversion was harmful, and only had any point if you were doing things wrong. But he admitted that if you really wanted, removing the right-hand half of the trigger-guard front was pretty harmless.

[Der Gebirgsjager]

Cutting down the right hand side of the trigger guard is a modification I have read about a number of times, but never seen. On the other hand, I've seen the front end cut away a la Fitz a number of times and it's something I'd never do or own. Seems like an accidental discharge waiting to happen, and is not pleasing in appearance either. There's "fast" and there's "safe", and I'll always choose No. 2.

Just kicking this around a bit more, Col. Rex Applegate taught a crouched shooting stance during WW II, which was also called the FBI crouch or stance. I guess that perhaps it was still in vogue when Cooper entered the scene.

[MakeMineLead]

I regret not buying the Brazilian contract gun I saw in San Diego for $235, with ivory grips no less.
Robert

i saw one, beautiful condition, nice & clean on a table @ a show. It was a private seller, no tax or paperwork. I picked it up. The price was right. Then this other guy stands right next to me. I mean, so close, I was about to tell him, "Sorry, I'm straight."

Then I see his eyes are in the Brazilian. I pretended like I was going to put it down, he leans in. I play with it some more, I pretend to put it down again. He leans in. I told the seller, "I'll take it."

The other guy vanishes. Gee, I was hoping he might buy me lunch....

BTW, the 1937 is an AWSOME shooter!

[Ballistics in Scotland]

Cutting down the right hand side of the trigger guard is a modification I have read about a number of times, but never seen. On the other hand, I've seen the front end cut away a la Fitz a number of times and it's something I'd never do or own. Seems like an accidental discharge waiting to happen, and is not pleasing in appearance either. There's "fast" and there's "safe", and I'll always choose No. 2.

Just kicking this around a bit more, Col. Rex Applegate taught a crouched shooting stance during WW II, which was also called the FBI crouch or stance. I guess that perhaps it was still in vogue when Cooper entered the scene.

I think an accidental discharge would only happen if the revolver was cocked, or the user's habits were excessively idiosyncratic. But a one-legged trigger-guard can easily be bent enough to trap the trigger.

I'm sure you are right about fashions changing, but not looking at the sights is well out of favour nowadays. Not many people nowadays have heard of Michael Bentine the comedian, whom I remember for his own TV shows, but who was one of the founder members of the Goons on the radio, with Sellars, Milligan and Secombe. Just before the Second World War he tried to join the Royal Air Force, who said "Go away, you're a Peruvian." (Like my favourite aunt, incidentally, who drove an ambulance during the bombing.) Then later they conscripted him into the RAF and arrested him on stage in Hyde Park, because he had been on tour and hadn't received the notice. Giving him vaccinations they gave him a live culture by mistake, making him severely myopic and unfit for flying, although as an intelligence officer he was one of the first into Belsen.

He was nevertheless an expert recreational pistol shot, and when the Special Air Service, hitherto just soldiers with relatively little use for pistols, were told to form an antiterrorist unit he became their instructor in the "kill room" hostage rescue mock-up, which often involves smoke and darkness. Clearly myopia has its uses.

[bob208]

if you read skeeter or elmer you will see the 1917 was modified a lot back in the 50's.

[Der Gebirgsjager]

i saw one, beautiful condition, nice & clean on a table @ a show. It was a private seller, no tax or paperwork. I picked it up. The price was right. Then this other guy stands right next to me. I mean, so close, I was about to tell him, "Sorry, I'm straight."

Then I see his eyes are in the Brazilian. I pretended like I was going to put it down, he leans in. I play with it some more, I pretend to put it down again. He leans in. I told the seller, "I'll take it."

The other guy vanishes. Gee, I was hoping he might buy me lunch....

BTW, the 1937 is an AWSOME shooter!

MakeMineLead--you're just a really mean guy, aren't you. An inborn streak of cruelty!

[ATCDoktor]

Here's a Brazilian I picked up about 8 years ago for 300 bucks.

At at some point the previous owner had it parkerized and did a little filing on the front sight.

Shoots a skosh high with 200 grain swc's and 4.3 grains of Winchester 231.

[Der Gebirgsjager]

Nice! I guess I could give you your $300 back if you want out from under it. After 8 years you're probably tired of it!

[MakeMineLead]

MakeMineLead--you're just a really mean guy, aren't you. An inborn streak of cruelty!

Ain't I just!

Brazilian on top, 1917 on bottom. I have the wood grips for both. I picked the Goodyear's out of a box on a table @ a gun show for $5.00 a pair. I ground the insides of the Goodyear's so the lanyard rings could stay attached to the gun. All #'s match on the Brazilian. Interesting story on the parked 1917. After WWI, any guns which needed repair were simply greased, and put in storage, because the House Committee cut repair funds. After pearl harbor, they voted funds, because they needed every gun they could get. The 1917 was sent to Aniston Arsenal (it has an 'AA' stamp) and a new barrel was installed (no serial # on the flat on the bottom of the barrel) it was parked, then went back into storage and was not ever issued!

Both guns are great shooters w/ 200 or 230 TC cast bullets over 5.5 of Herco.

[Der Gebirgsjager]

That's a nice pair you have. Interesting story about the 1917 re-parkerization project. I used to have an absolutely pristine 1917 US Enfield rifle that looked like it had left the arsenal just yesterday. Problem was that it was parked instead of blued as were the originals. Eventually I sold it, and the buyer claimed almost the very same story about WW I rifles having languished until WW II and then being refinished, but never issued because by then they were obsolete.

[Char-Gar]

Well then, if this turn to Brazilians, here are mine.

[MakeMineLead]

That's a nice pair you have. Interesting story about the 1917 re-parkerization project. I used to have an absolutely pristine 1917 US Enfield rifle that looked like it had left the arsenal just yesterday. Problem was that it was parked instead of blued as were the originals. Eventually I sold it, and the buyer claimed almost the very same story about WW I rifles having languished until WW II and then being refinished, but never issued because by then they were obsolete.

Thanks Der,

I happen to have a K38 (1951 vintage) w/ the right side of the guard somewhat ground down. The grip frame has also been made into a round butt. The barrel was cut from 6 to 4" and the front sight reinstalled. I bought it for a song from a pawn shop 7 or 8 years ago. It was messy looking. It cleaned up fine and shoots great. I'll post a pic of it later.

Yes. The repair program called for repaired arms to be parked prior to being sent to arsonel storage for possible re-issue. The original finish specification wasn't considered. If it was repaired, it got parked!

Lots of these 'obsolete' arms were issued to guards at stateside depots, arsenals, gate guards @ bases & forts during WWII. Many more like mine, and your Enfield, simply sat in storage and were never re-issued. The mind set was, "If things get bad enough, these older arms are can be issued as 'substitute-standard"'

Eventually, these arms were sold off. If you had known to look for it, the repair arsenal stamp was on that Enfield somewhere. The AA stamp is on the lower left side of my 1917's frame.

The arsenals didn't stamp new serial #'s on the replaced part(s). As I say, the flat on the bottom I'm my 1917's barrel is unmarked, and the barrel is virtually new.

I gave $500.00 for it 10 years ago. If anything, it's appreciated in value.

Char-Gar,

The 1937 called for a Flat-Top frame, and Square Notch rear sight, vs the 1917's Round-Top frame an U notch. The first batch of 1937's used new production frames. My 1937 is one of these.

The 1937's called for checkered grips w/ the S&W roundel. But, many first batch guns had 1917 grips instead. My 1937 has 1917 grips.

Many of the second batch 1937's used left-over 1917 frames! Second batch guns will be see With either type grips also.