New Batch of Lyman 525's

[longbow]

Miha:

I tried e-mailing but will try this too.

I went to your website to find the 12 ga. full bore "Lyman" slug but did not find it. What is the price? I would like to get one but money is tight as I was out of work for a while recently. The full bore version has its appeal if I can afford one.

And what exactly is "full bore" diameter? If 0.727" to suit rifled guns then not much use to me.

Thanks,
Longbow

[CANUCK]

Handgunr:

Buckshot (member here) machined grooves into a Lyman mould many years ago for a member to bring the slug up to bore diameter and provide lube grooves. That would work for a rifled gun or smoothbore.

Turbo1889 had a couple of custom moulds made up by Brooks for his smoothbores but they had lube grooves so should work very well in a rifled gun too. They were bore diameter and shot well from his smoothbores.

Longbow

I have the Lyman Foster slug mould and find it grossly undersized also.
I was thinking of getting mine machined out to bore size ( 0.729" - 0.730" for my gun) so I checked at my local machine shop and they said no problem.
I am debating on whether or not to bring the whole side up to bore size or 3 bands giving 2 lube grooves.
Any opinions on this?

[Cap'n Morgan]

I am debating on whether or not to bring the whole side up to bore size or 3 bands giving 2 lube grooves.
Any opinions on this?

If we're talking smoothbore I would go for two bands to keep weight down. If you (or anyone else) could produce a simple drawing of the Lyman Foster slug with basic measurements (including the core) I'll make a 3D solid model and try fiddling with various band designs and perhaps be able to move Center of Gravity a little forward in the process.

[Handgunr]

Since the walls are fairly thin, and it's pure lead anyway, I'll experiment with the swaging punch and cup thing that I had my local machine shop make for me. They made the diameter of the cup/die at .730 I think.......it's been awhile.
Setting the slug in the cup face down and putting the punch in the back hollow base, a quick rap with a hammer should swell it out to bore diameter. Something cheap & easy was what I wanted.

I could always have them make a die that would thread into my single stage press and swage fins or bands on it too maybe.........more $$$$

[longbow]

If I was doing it I would go with 3 bands. The skirt is so thin that they collapse on firing as is. If the collapse can be controlled and even then it really shouldn't hurt but 3 bands and filling the hollow base with hot melt glue, silicone, wax or whatever should solve the collapse issue.

Weight is an issue and I don't like my slugs too heavy (as in under 600 grs.) mostly because I don't think more weight is that much of a benefit and it become a bit tough to get load data except for equivalent weight shot loads which are seldom equivalent to high performance slug loads.

Depends on what a guy is looking for.

Of course the core pin can be turned to get thicker skirt and heavier nose but not only does weight go up, the ability to squeeze through a choke goes down as well, if that is a concern. Personally I like the slug designs that will go through a choke... just in case.

I think the old Paradox style Kynoch slugs with the large radiused groove and narrow driving bands should squeeze through a choke but I would want to try it in an old beater gun and from a distance. if that worked then a guy would be a bit more confident in trying slug designs.

Handgunr's swaging idea should work if the swaging is nice and even without distorting the skirt or tilting the nose. The punch should be a shortened version of the core pin and a little larger in diameter with a shoulder to pick up the skirt base and make the skirt even at the back edge.

Like I said, SlougerDoug used helical gears to swage "rifling" onto slugs and raise lands making them bore diameter with good success.

I prefer turbo1889's hollow base slug designs and Brenneke style slugs as well. I have to do some more testing with my straight ribbed versions.

Longbow

[smokeeter]

Got out to shoot again today, I really wanted to see if filling the hollow base was necessary with these slugs. The first loads I tried were with the recommended Blue Dot load and since I didn't have much of that powder I jumped right in with the filling the hollow base, well I can honestly say that in my case it does make a difference and I will be filling bases from here on in.
Everything is equal with these loads with the exception of naked and filled.
These loads are with W571 powder and not Blue Dot
Naked


Wax filled

[Handgunr]

Smokkeeter,

Now those are shot through a smoothbore, right ?.........The bottom target is two or three ?.....impressive.

Bob

[smokeeter]

savage 210 rifled barrel (bottom target is 3 shots).

[Handgunr]

smokeeter,

Nice results !.......as I said, impressive !

My results, using 3 different rifled shotguns, was an eye opener. For testing I used a Bennelli semi auto, a Remington 11-87, and an 870........all rifled barrels and all scoped. I had so many Federal Hi-Power buckshot hulls from the police range that I obviously decided to use them. The then recent Lyman shotgun manual's (sabot slug) loading data section had Federal shotshell hulls listed that carried slightly different internal dimensions to what I had on hand, but I used that data anyway. The difference can easily be absorbed by using a different wad..........going from the WW yellow wad to the WWAA12 white wad.

Of the powders listed, Herco at 32.0 grns showed the best or most accurate choice by their testing. I used the standard W209 primers regularly, and they were listed as well. After sizing the hulls, priming them, and adding the powder, I placed the wad in the hull with 20 lbs. of down pressure........mainly to compress or set the charge. I didn't put anything in the skirts of the sabots......no wax or glue......nothing, as cast (pure lead), but well sorted. I pushed the slugs into the wad and made sure they were well seated inside the pedals of the wads before applying a good fold crimp.

The results at 100 yds. out of all 3 shotguns was amazing and behaved more like a 50 cal. rifle instead of the shotgun performance we are all accustomed to. Out of 5 rounds shot through the Bennelli using a 7x scope, 4 of the 5 rounds went into a smallish cloverleaf group. The 5th hit slightly off to the side due to a gusting crosswind........maybe an inch if that. The Remington 11-87 shot two out of the 5 round group.....one about a half inch......the other, maybe 1 1/2..which we felt was shooter error (trigger). The 870 shot all five within a similar one cluster maybe 3.5 in total center to center with two in the same hole. I didn't shoot the guns due to the scope settings, the owner's did.......also the groups were shot off benched sand bags at my range.....a measured 100yds.

I did watch the results and I was thoroughly impressed and extremely satisfied. The load, through one of the guns, was chronographed at 1447 fps.......not bad for an once and a quarter.........and they hit HARD......

Bob

[longbow]

While I do not have the Lyman Sabot slug mould, I have recovered several slugs that other people have shot and ALL are shorter. with distorted skirt. than they are before firing. Now, if the skirt collapse is consistent that isn't to say that they cannot be accurate just that filling the skirt is likely a good idea.

YMMV

Longbow

[Handgunr]

longbow....
From the majority of slugs that I've recovered, yes, the skirt folds up into the front. I'm sure anything in the base would be ejected. I've got one in my shop now that I recovered after firing through a 2x6. It's completely there, but the nose pushed back into the base forming a solid cylindrical chunk. It didn't invert or anything, but I often wonder if it encountered more mass whether it would or not.

From what I've seen on the site, filling the bases obviously creates better flight performance for some, or in certain cases......I don't know. From my personal experience with them, I'm getting excellent accuracy just as they fall from the mold. When I first got the mold, the performance (first few loads) wasn't bad, it just wasn't great. If I remember correctly, one of the first few loads I tried was a Lyman book load using Unique.....like I said, it didn't do so hot. I then figured I'd try Lyman's "recommended load" using Herco and it was a night & day difference for me.

Many of the guys I shot and hunted with were buying the $15.00 a box of 5 Federal sabot slugs back then......big money in comparison to the $2.50 foster slugs on sale at Wally World. Once they saw what I was doing with the Lyman sabots, and the results I was getting, they were hot on getting some. My best buddy (with the Benelli) swears by them. He gets the occasional flyer now & then an inch or so out, but most of the time, the rounds go into a cluster at 100yds.

The sad part of it all........after all the years of messing with homemade slugs, then finally having success with them........after buying a new Remington SPS Super Slug to shoot them in.......our state passed a new law allowing rifles for deer hunting in the southern tier. Right now, I see boxes & boxes of slugs sitting on the shelves at the store and they barely dwindle.......only to go on sale at the end of season. Not many want them anymore.

Anyway, just my 2.......