Critical details for an accurate Mini 14?

[TCLouis]

So as I remember the ads, Chief AJ (??) would work one over and have it MOA shooter.

What did he correct to make them a shooter?

A fellow range control worker asked me to help him sight in one bought.
One could never predict where the next round would land, no matter what the scope adjustment was, or even if there was no scope adjustment.

NO better with irons as I remember.

[sghart3578]

So as I remember the ads, Chief AJ (??) would work one over and have it MOA shooter.

What did he correct to make them a shooter?

A fellow range control worker asked me to help him sight in one bought.
One could never predict where the next round would land, no matter what the scope adjustment was, or even if there was no scope adjustment.

NO better with irons as I remember.

This is the exact same experience I had with mine years ago.

Some guys say the new ones are better but who needs it? I now have an AR15 that shoots brilliantly with all of my handloads and doesn't take expensive proprietary magazines.

The Mini 14 was a Ruger bungle that could have been one of history's great civilian firearms. It needed better quality control and it should have been designed to take AR magazines from the start.


Steve in N CA

[W.R.Buchanan]

Steve: It was designed to be a replacement for the M1Carbine which was last produced for the Military in 1945.

Ruger was guilty of bad QC up til about 1997, simply because there wasn't that much demand for the gun, and then things started to change. It has gotten much better but still needs a just little more.

Since you aren't going to buy one the fact that the current series (583) are the best ones ever made won't impress you. But believe me they are good guns and I might add that a good portion of the Naysayers have never even shot one, let alone owned one. They just like to spread the hate on the nternet.

The guns are not Tack Drivers, although there is ways to make them into Tack Drivers. But they were designed originally to mimic Military weapons of the day. They are generally very reliable guns, and the vast majority of the older ones will hold 2-3" at 100 yards despite what the haters would have you believe. 3" is better than acceptable Battlefield Accuracy since the practical limit to the cartridge is 300 yards anyway.

I might add that if the Mini 14 had seen the amount of development that the M16/M4 has had,,, it would be a completely different gun.

The M16 I shot in Air Force Basic Training in 1969 put every shot (60 ea) thru the target sideways. Since the guns had only been in service a few years they were hardly worn out but instead had 1-12" or 1-14" twist barrels which wouldn't stabilize the 55 gr bullets on a bet.

WE were told in basic that they were designed "to tumble." To wit, I stood up and said "Not before they hit the target!" and was ordered to "drop and give 20." I already knew about rifles and how they were supposed to work and the fact that even though every shot key holed, it was still on target, and I got my Marksmanship Ribbon.

I was not impressed with the gun and they didn't really show us how to run it very well at all. I didn't buy one until 2013.

I only started shooting AR's 2-3 years ago and I am going to Front Sight in a couple of weeks to further my understanding and abilities in running and shooting one. They are with out question the most complicated Auto Rifle to run there is. The Mini is not it is simple like a Garand or M14.

And the reason why they didn't use AR mags is because AR's really didn't exist anywhere outside the Military when the Mini 14 was designed, also since the gun was designed to be a smaller M 14 the mags needed to rock in like a big M14's mags do. Thus the current design.

Too bad you've taken a set on this gun as they are a lot of fun to shoot and once you understand their limitations they are very usable. Incidentally I can hit a 8x10 steel target off a rest every single time at 200 yards with mine. For what I use the gun for (shooting steel targets) that's good enough accuracy, and the gun never malfunctions when shooting along string of targets. So reliability and acceptable accuracy Trump a finicky AR any day.

Your AR is a product of 50+ years of development. And had the Mini been adopted instead of the AR you'd be saying the same thing about the AR.

Randy

[sghart3578]

Randy,

We will have to agree to disagree I suppose. I did own a Mini 14 at one time. I plunked down my money so I feel my opinion is valid. I shoot regularly with a fellow who owns two and neither are satisfactory. There are more than a few people turned off by the Ruger.

Inadequate research and lack of attention to QC is no excuse. In fact it makes it worse.

I am going to exit this thread hoping to stay friends with everyone. But I will leave with this article. It was written by a policeman who was responsible for training other cops.

http://www.activeresponsetraining.ne...-ruger-mini-14

Best of luck.



Steve in N CA

[M-Tecs]

I currently own an original 601 upper with a 14 twist and a numerous 604's with the 12 twist. All stabilize 55 grain GI ball (M193) very well. The rifles a AF BMT average over a 1,000 rounds a week. Barrel life is measured in months.

[KLR]

Randy,

We will have to agree to disagree I suppose. I did own a Mini 14 at one time. I plunked down my money so I feel my opinion is valid.

Amen. My Ranch Rifle was horribly inaccurate. I wasted my money and time trying to get it to shoot. It would have been unethical to use the rifle to hunt varmints at anything over 50 yds.

Pre-internet days, so I only talked to a few shooters with experience with the Mini. All cited accuracy problems and none kept their rifle.

I don't know about the majority of Minis out there, only mine. However, I can't understand why Ruger redesigned the barrel if it was adequate, and why all those strut systems exist.

No unfounded hate, just my data point. But if I have to be a hater, that rifle certainly earned it.

[primersp]

I have one on thé 90 ,un 222 rem ,due thé législation hère.I put à flash! Hider ,is thé weight damped thé barrel?
Thé gun scopped shoots 2 "at 100m
André

[Hickok]

I had a Mini .223 and a Mini 30 years ago before the newer "better?" ones came out. Thought the first one was a fluke, so dumb me, bought another one.

If I wanted to hit a groundhog in the head with either one, just to be 100% sure of connecting, I had to be in shotgun range, about 35 yards.

You never knew about the grouping, one group was good, next group,....."what the Sam Hill is going on!" It was difficult to get a good solid "zero" with them. You just could not be sure where the next round was tracking with the sights.

I gave up on Mini's.

[sghart3578]

I had a Mini .223 and a Mini 30 years ago before the newer "better?" ones came out. Thought the first one was a fluke, so dumb me, bought another one.

If I wanted to hit a groundhog in the head with either one, just to be 100% sure of connecting, I had to be in shotgun range, about 35 yards.

You never knew about the grouping, one group was good, next group,....."what the Sam Hill is going on!" It was difficult to get a good solid "zero" with them. You just could not be sure where the next round was tracking with the sights.

I gave up on Mini's.

You and me both brother.

I'm sure that there are some good ones out there, there are too many stories going around from guys that own them. I have never seen one in person.

I have a limited amount of money to spend on guns so buying three or four Mini 14's to find one good one is not an option.


Steve in N CA

[Uncle R.]

If I'm a hater, so be it.

My opinions on Minis are based not on things I saw on YouTube, but on my own experience with the rifle I owned and my friends' experience with rifles they owned. I know what my mini 30 did, I know how I tried many different loads and bullets with lackluster results. I know how my Chinese SKS could handily beat the Ruger in accuracy if I used the same ammo I shot in the Mini. I know how some of my friends struggled with their mini-14s and how some of them spent big bucks on modifications in search of accuracy. I was there - I saw their groups, I shot their guns, I saw their frustration.

I know any of my several ARs will shoot WAY better than any Mini I've ever seen - and I've seen a lot of 'em. Again - this is not what I've read on the internet, but what I've seen with my own eyes, and many times.


Maybe the new Minis are better. They certainly had acres of room for improvement. Why should I care? After being burned on Minis before, why would I buy another in the hope that maybe this time it will be better? For the same money, maybe even a little less, I can buy an AR that almost certainly will be more accurate than any Mini, even the vaunted new production rifles. The AR sounds like a deal to me.

Minis? Bah!

Uncle R.

[Rick Hodges]

I own a mini and an AR both Rugers. My mini when stock would shoot 2 1/2-3" groups at 100yds. I spent a ton of money and now have a very heavy mini that will shoot most anything into 1 1/2" or less at 100yds. (New Barrel, bedding, gas port work etc. etc. etc.)
I recently purchased a AR 5.56 Ruger for less money than they want for the new Mini....and it shoots as good as my tricked Mini and is handier and 2 pounds lighter.
Maybe because I went through basic training with the M-16, but I think the AR platform is simple to run...easier to clean, easier to repair, easier to modify....there is no comparison. Given the choice I would take the AR every time.

[W.R.Buchanan]

my gawd! The policeman in the article stated that they ran 200,000 rounds thru 4 Mini 14's? How many guns will last thru 50,000 rounds and not have some problems? Also the pic in the article was of an old one, not a new gun. Also please note that the San Bernardino Police are carrying Mini's and just bought another 100 of them from Ruger at the SHOT Show. They must be terrible.

As far as reliability,,, it has been common knowledge for 30 years that the guns only function right with Ruger Mags, but still this cop tried to use an aftermarket mag to run his qualification? Sounds kind of dumb? My gun was used and came with a Pro Mag 10 rounder that has never ran a full load of 10 rounds without malfunction. It runs fine with the Ruger Mags.

The finger in the trigger guard is allowed even at Front Sight which trains 80,000 people a year. It is the same Manual of Arms as the M1 Garand, and the M14, and nobody complained about having your finger in the trigger guard with those. However common training dictates that your finger is outside the trigger guard until you go to the ready position in which case you cover the safety. There as 7 million Garands made over about 10 years not counting the clones,,, if the safety was a problem they probably would have changed it? Also the cop missed that little fine point.

Clearing malfunctions with a Mini is much easier as the whole top of the action is wide open. If you ever have your finger in the hole trying to dislodge a double feed with an AR and have the bolt slam shut on your finger you will rethink that point. They commonly teach using your left hand to clear the malfunction because you are less likely to trip the bolt release and if you do, you still have your trigger finger in tact. AR's can be vicious. Mini's not so much.

I will admit that the normal range of accuracy from Mini's is below that of AR's. However the reasons for that are due to the guns bleeding off too much gas. A simple $5 bushing fixes that.

Customizing? There are right now about 15 different versions of the Mini. Pick one. and yes there is more stuff for AR's but there is little needed for a Mini. A good Sling and a Red Dot Sight is all I've done to mine and it routinely places me well up in competitions against young guys with very expensive AR's. This is usually attributable to the fact that they spent so much money on their guns that they didn't have any left over for training lessons on how to run and shoot their guns.

They also didn't realize that "any gun will do, if you will do."

So yes we are disagreeing on this one,,, nobodies right 100% of the time.

Incidentally I find that cops are usually not the best shooters out there. I think I could run circles around the guy in the article. Why they won't practice more is beyond me.

Randy

[Bullwolf]

I have an older Mini-30 196 series. Judging by the serial number, it's from around 2002-2003 manufacture. Mine also has the pencil thin barrel.

Ruger Mini Thirty Serial Number History.
http://www.ruger.com/service/product...iniThirty.html

I added a barrel stabilizing strut to my Ruger Mini-30. While it likely won't ever be a sub MOA rifle, adding the strut to my Mini-30 tightened things up considerably.

Here's the first 20 round group I fired through it, into a sight in target back on 11/19/2012.

At the time I was dialing in the scope on my Mini-30 at 50 yards, using Winchester White box ammo to test functionality, and also because I wanted some more boxer primed re-loadable 7.62x39 brass to play around with.

It took me 4 shots to center the scope, and walk the hits down & left into the Bullseye. (covered by the 4 black target dots on the right side of the target) I was quite pleased with the remaining group. Especially so since I was only shooting bulk inexpensive ammunition, and not hand loads.



I'm not the most accurate target shooter with a rifle, and this is definitely not a cherry picked group. It is however the only target that I have a picture of. I think it also shows that the rifle is capable of somewhat decent accuracy.

I decided to go with an Accu-strut, rather than a Har-Bar, a Mo-rod, or even trying to fabricate some kind of barrel strut myself.

http://www.accu-strut.com/

Heck, I even like the way the strut looks. (it reminds me of an M14) I can't even feel that it's up front. Supposedly the strut helps prevent barrel whip, and the random stringing issues others report from warmed up barrels, or overly gassed rifles.





The Mini-30 reminds me of a larger M1 30 carbine, and is easy for me to pick up and transition to. It feels much like my M1 Garand, M1 carbine, or any other M14 pattern rifle to me. It's like having a scope friendly stainless SKS, only with more familiar controls and a nicer magazine. I like it lots, and hope mine isn't just one of the rare nice ones.

My particular Ruger Mini-30 is a Ranch Rifle, and that's exactly what I purchased it to be. An all weather friendly stainless steel rifle with a polymer stock, to kick around on the Ranch. I will likely never hunt with a semi auto rifle, but I suspect it is accurate enough to take a down a deer, or coyote if need be.

I won't be using mine for competition or anything like that, but my rifle shoots nicer groups than most of the people I've sat next to at the public range shooting AR pattern rifles.

I'm not saying that the Ruger Mini rifles are more accurate than a decent AR, just that in my experience most people don't shoot all that great in general, and would likely never notice the difference. Even more so if they were just ignorantly blasting away and making noise, while shooting the least expensive steel cased ammunition found on the shelf at Wally World.

After reading all the internet horror stories about the terrible accuracy of these rifles, I would have felt a lot better if I could have shot mine first, or bought a known rifle from a friend. It turns out that I was worried about nothing.

While I have never owned a Mini-14 rifle, and just the Mini-30, I have a few friends and family who do, but I have had only a limited amount of experience with them. Unfortunately, most of the Mini-14 owners I know don't shoot at paper. (only at tin cans, or steel) So I haven't formed much of an opinion about the Mini-14's 100 yard accuracy potential, or lack there of. I'd be more likely to use a bolt action rifle to shoot varmints or p-dogs with, than a Mini-14.

The Mini-14's that I've been around have always functioned well, and manage to ring steel, or bounce a can around. They do what they were made to do just fine.


- Bullwolf

[Uncle R.]

If I got a 2 inch group at 50 yards from one of my scoped ARs I'd be very unhappy. I would expect a scoped AR to do much better than that.

I get the point about ergonomics.
I like the way Minis look.
I like the way Minis operate.
I always thought Minis would be really cool if only they would shoot better.
I just can't get past the poor accuracy.

I posted here a long time ago about how I resisted buying my first AR back in the 80s. At that point in my learning I hated the look, the ergonomics, the plastic, the aluminum, just everything about 'em. That was why I was studying Minis, talking to my friends and other competitors, trying to find something that wasn't an AR that could compete in the matches I was shooting in. I wasn't biased in favor of ARs - I was biased against 'em.

I finally bought a National Match M1A.
Yep, looks and operates like a Mini.
It wouldn't quite deliver at the mystical 1 MOA level, but it came VERY close. I loved the dang thing then and I still do, but it's awfully big and heavy, and it kicks too much to allow the speed of fire required in most matches I shoot. For those rare situations where I need to deliver a powerful blow with accuracy or at a long distance it's hard to beat, but most of the time it stays in the safe and I use an AR.

Different people have different expectations or requirements for their guns.
For what I want to do with a .223 accuracy matters, and 3 MOA doesn't cut it.
If you're only concerned about police work or shooting bigger critters like coyotes at under 200 yards 3 MOA might be just fine. Even then, I wouldn't settle for the 3 MOA rifle when for the same money I could have a 1 MOA rifle that's reliable, easily scoped, easily fitted with match grade trigger if desired, etc, etc.


Different strokes and all that, but for myself I have no use for Minis. If they made a Mini with a good trigger and consistent MOA accuracy, and offered it for the same price as a "mid-level" AR I'd stand in line to buy it. Until then, I'd spend the money on an AR and get better performance for my bucks.
As usual JMHO and YMMV.

Uncle R

[Hickok]

Uncle R, pretty much sums it up for me too. Love my AR and my M1a NM.

I truly like the "feel" and the way a Mini handles, but the accuracy just doesn't come up to what I want and need in this rifle.

Just a bummer, it could be a swell little carbine.

[W.R.Buchanan]

I guess my whole point about these guns is that most people think they need super duper accuracy, but can't really achieve it due to their inability to actually shoot that well.

I can see needing the accuracy in a Bullseye Target Environment, or maybe shooting varmints. Anything other than that, and especially if shooting off hand, 99% of shooters can't hold well enough to know for sure if it is the gun or them. As a result they couldn't definitively say if the gun was a 1,2 or 3 MOA Gun. Lots of people couldn't tell the difference even if they were shooting off the bench.

Hence for the intended purposes of plinking and killing people the Mini 14 would be as good as any other gun in their hands.

Lots of people tend to avoid taking responsibility for their own actions and blame other things, usually inanimate objects which can't object, for their failures.

I personally feel the Mini 14's history has largely been a victim of those types. If the gun was really that bad do you actually think Ruger would still make them and ask $800-1000 for them?

Randy

[sghart3578]

Ruger still makes them because there are new gun buyers entering the market with no historical knowledge.

Mediocre firearms are stilled manufactured and sold because the majority of gun owners will rarely fire their guns. Ruger and the others know this. They count on it. I would guess that I fire 500 rounds per month in various guns that I own. I'm sure most people on this forum do the same or much more.

However, the vast majority guns are bought by people who don't reload and may only have enough money to shoot once a year if that. Buyers like this don't concern themselves with accuracy.

I see them all the time at the range. Expensive guns that can't hit a paper plate at 50 yards. In these cases it is not the gun. You give this guy a Mini 14 and he doesn't care if he can't hit anything. He has a "cool" gun. I submit that this accounts for a lot of the sales not just of Mini 14's but guns in general.

[W.R.Buchanan]

And we do agree on that point, and with the internet, that guy can now voice his opinion on a gun that he thinks is bad, but couldn't prove it on a bet,,, simply because, as we agree, he can't shoot that well to begin with. There will also be lots of people influenced by his words, even though he doesn't have a clue what he is talking about. There will also lots of people who spread his BS far and wide.

And there in lies the vast majority of Mini14 problems.

Goto to http://www.perfectunion.com/vb/ruger-mini-14-mini-30/

See and read what real Mini aficionados have to say about the gun and fixing the common problems. This community is the goto place to see about all things Mini, and yes there are a few detractors. But by and large most people are very happy with their guns and would not trade them for AR's.

All guns have problems and if they didn't we'd not have much to talk about here.

One other tidbit. You just did a Palmetto AR right? That gun didn't exist 10 years ago, and neither did many of the other AR's that are available today. Only after the AWB got lifted in 2003 or 4 did the myriad of gun companies pop up and start mass producing AR's.

Now even Ruger makes a $600 AR and so does lots of other outfits. I'm building a Del-Ton 20" A3 Rifle with a lower that was made in the 1990's from an outfit that I'd never heard of and has long since gone away. The gun will cost me about $600 to complete as I want a chrome lined barrel and Magpul furniture which are all options for any Del-Ton gun.

So I can buy the Rifle kit with the options I want, for a set price directly from the company! Now that's service. And the modular nature of the gun allows this to take place. It's like a VW Bug which arguably had more aftermarket stuff made for it than any other machine in history!

If Hildegard gets elected and the people vote for another Democrat Congress you can bet that ban will get reinstated and all those companies will go away in a heartbeat.

You can also bet that they will try to come for the guns !

If that happens we need all the guns we can get. and Mini's will be near the top of that list.

Short List: Glocks, AR's AK's, Minis.

It's good we discuss this stuff as it adds civil content to this site. It also gives me something to do while waiting for breakfast.

Randy

[KLR]

In a quirk of fate (or fit of temporary insanity), I stumbled on a good deal on a new Mini-14 and couldn't resist. I'm going to wring it out and post a thread with the results.

It will either be titled: "Randy was Right" or "Randy is Full of It."

[W.R.Buchanan]

I can't wait!

Which Model?

Break the barrel in right and use decent ammo like Fed American Eagle which is only $7.44 a box at Walmart. Only use Ruger Mags!

Do contact me for the simple mods it you can do to get it run to it's highest potential.

Also look to http://www.perfectunion.com/vb/ruger-mini-14-mini-30/ for the best Mini 14 info. It's kind of like the Enfield site but for Mini's and with more people.

Randy