Starting over need a .454 recip

[Blackcat]

I just got the hang of using my reloading equipment then I stopped for a few years.
Now I have everything ready to go and i've lost my recipes.

I'm loading for a Taurus RB .454 revolver.

I don't really want a full house load (just to save wear and tear on the gun).

I have 1000 rounds of pristine never fired Starline brass.
5000 cci 400 small rifle primers
300 grain wfngc cast bullets
Gas checks
H110
Unique
Titegroup

I have the Hornady manual it mentions a max load of H110 300 grain bullet 1600 fps at 31.4 grains.

With the materials I have listed I want to make a good all around load (accurate and reliable)

I've read H110 can have issues igniting and cci 400 might be to small to fire it up ?
Some say use the cci magnum primers instead (thoughts?)

I've also read that H110 and small or soft bullets can wash out the cone (I also don't want that)

Any good loads ?

[DougGuy]

First off DO NOT download H110 below minimum published starting charges. H110 needs a high load density and heavy boolits. If you want less than a magnum load, research available data and find suitable powder recommendations from loading manuals or powder manufacturers.

Second, you can go to numerous online sources, like right to the powder manufacturer's site and find load data. MUCH SAFER than bumming around forums looking for someone's own personal data which may or may not be within guidelines published in loading manuals and published by powder manufacturers.

If a certain primer was dangerous or not recommended you won't see data with that primer listed. If you don't see a certain boolit weight or style it is because it isn't listed because it may not be recommended for the .454 cartridge. If you don't see a certain powder listed for .454 it is because it is NOT RECOMMENDED.

You have the right stuff to begin with, go to Hodgdon and search their reloading data for H110 in the .454 you will find everything you need.

Also, there is no need to start multiple threads on the same subject, as you can edit your posts as necessary.

DO run your new brass through a resizing/decapping die, you will need the case neck tension this will provide.

[Blackcat]

Did I start multiple threads ? Sorry that was unintentional, as I was typing it kept telling me I had just posted. It's never done that so I figured it was some sort of glitch

I think I should have been a little more specific. I do have the factory data... I was mostly wondering if I should jump right in at minimum or mid pressure factory loads and just work up from there or start at the max recommended load or if there was a better option.

Otherwise my plan is to jump right in with the Hornady mid level load (29. 8 grains H110 @ 1500 fps)

[Blackcat]

Now I remember why I hate reloading lol.
I do it because I can't afford to shoot otherwise with the cost of ammo these days but nothing gets me swearing up a storm more than reading about reloading.

Every other thing I read contradicts the last thing I read. I've spent by my best estimate well over a hundred hours of reading and it just goes in circles. Much of it even contradicts the factory data.

I remembered why I bought so many cci 400 small rifle primers. Because after many many hours of reading it seemed like the recomended primer for my use.

The factory data says Winchester small rifle but more people seem to prefer the cci.

Then theres people saying the factory primer data is wrong for .454.

Then some say use the winchester because its hotter than the cci.

Then others say there's no difference between the two.

Then people say you get squibs using cci 400.

Then others say cci 400 is all they ever used with no issues.

Then someone says it's all about capacity and a heavy roll crimp (thats why I bought the roll crimp die back in the day)

Some say its dangerous, some say its not...

See where this is going lol

If I recall... Back in the day my first few loads seemed decent but a few didnt ignite (just dented primers)
I've read that is common with cci and a thicker material...

I wont start my loads until I have this sorted out but it gives me one hell of a headache every time.

When it comes to reloading it feels like nothing matters because there is just as much info saying its correct as there is saying it's incorrect. Even the factory data doesnt seem reliable.

Until I can get some cci small rifle MAGNUM or winchester i'll probably leave the H110.

That leaves unique and titegroup... I'm currently going through the factory data on those.

Bottom line it seems a max load of H110 with a cci 400 small rifle primer pushing a .300 grain bullet should work so long as it IS a max load and is heavily roll crimped. It could end up a squib or it could fail to fire (primer material to thick ?) but i'll leave that for the time being.

Sorry rant over lol

[leftiye]

That's because half of the things you read were written by people who actually don't know what they're talking about.

[bigdog454]

Right on Leftiye. many of those on line have never loaded for the 454 and they will give info for it because they load for a 45 acp or 45 Colt, The 454 is a different cartridge entirely. Spend a few bucks and by a Book with recpies for the 454 that powder manufactures have published.
BD

[44man]

I have to jump in about H110 and 296. Forget starting loads and go very close or at max loads.
The SR primer can fail to ignite starting loads. Our solution was cut down .460 brass and a LP mag primer. All other powders are fine with the primer. You can get some fine loads but with H110 and 296, there is an air space problem.

[dudel]

That's because half of the things you read were written by people who actually don't know what they're talking about.

+1 Stick to the data from your Hornady manual, and you'll be fine.

[mdi]

Referring to your post #4. Forget all the "stuff" you read on forums, or the "I heard", or "they say" data. Get your data from a published reloading manual. Use the recommended components and you'll be fine. What may work for "those guys" may or may not work for you. If you have a "problem", research reliable sources, troubleshoot for your self...

FWIW, I pay very little (no) attention to any load data from any forum expert, gun counter clerk, range rat,gun shop guru, or pet loads web site. I do on occasion look at powder manufacturers' website for data, but l do check that against a couple manuals.

You do get a lot of good info here on powder "quirks" and mebbe bullet performance, but get data elsewhere. I've been reloading for 30 years off and on and still use a published manual, or three for new to me gun or components...

[44man]

Referring to your post #4. Forget all the "stuff" you read on forums, or the "I heard", or "they say" data. Get your data from a published reloading manual. Use the recommended components and you'll be fine. What may work for "those guys" may or may not work for you. If you have a "problem", research reliable sources, troubleshoot for your self...

FWIW, I pay very little (no) attention to any load data from any forum expert, gun counter clerk, range rat,gun shop guru, or pet loads web site. I do on occasion look at powder manufacturers' website for data, but l do check that against a couple manuals.

You do get a lot of good info here on powder "quirks" and mebbe bullet performance, but get data elsewhere. I've been reloading for 30 years off and on and still use a published manual, or three for new to me gun or components...

Darn you hurt all of us. Do you mean what is said here is no value? Do you believe gun rags or manuals more then experience? What a very hard thing to say to the best of the best, right here.

[Blackcat]

I agree about sticking to the factory data. There is something to be said for the experience of other reloaders but there is so much mis information out there (thats what really stresses me out) I think (hate reloading) was the wrong word. I'm indifferent to it... I love shooting but if factory ammo was an affordable option I would go that route and save the headache.

I discovered about 100 rounds of winchester small rifle primer in my kit. I'll use these and do a load that matches the data from Hodgedon exactly. With H110 i'll also try a few with my cci 400 to compare.

None of the factory data (at leadt that I can find) has a lot about using Unique or Titegroup, although I have heard it can be done. I found some info for Titegroup but nothing in the 300 grain bullet range (wondering why)

My conclusion is I may have to bite the bullet and switch to winchester small rifle primers with the H110.

That just leaves me with two questions...

Firing max H110 loads with a 300 grain cast... How much damage will this do to my gun over time ? General wear, and what about this "forcing cone washout" issue that comes up. Is there real info out there on it or is it just another internet urban legend ? If it's legit... Should I be worried about my 300 grain cast with H110 ?

Thanks!

[454PB]

I own three .454 Casull revolvers, including a Taurus Raging Bull. Over the last 25 years, I've fired many thousands of rounds through them. My main interest in shooting and handloading is experimentation, and along the way, I've learned a lot of things both good and bad. I'm one of the guys that has had squibs and have pounded several boolits out of barrels.

My number one tip for loading .454 Casull is to avoid using slow burning ball powder with light boolits. Your 300 grainers are fine, but go down to 250 grains or below and your courting squibs. If you want to use the lighter projectiles, use faster burning powders.

I use CCI 400 and 450 primers exclusively in my .454's. I'm not saying they are the best or only primers to use, just that they are what I have experience with. I have noted better consistency when using CCI 450 primers with H-110, WW296, and WC820. Extreme spreads and groups are smaller than when I use CCI400.

You didn't state how much experience you have shooting a .454....if it's zero, I suggest you start with reduced loads (your Unique is fine for this). Hand a .454 Casull loaded with a 300 grain boolit at 1600 fps to someone that has never fired one is a recipe for flinching and fear.

As to the accumulated wear and damage to the gun, it's going to happen eventually. All my guns have erosion to some degree, but it's the price you pay for performance. However, it takes thousands of rounds.

[Blackcat]

I own three .454 Casull revolvers, including a Taurus Raging Bull. Over the last 25 years, I've fired many thousands of rounds through them. My main interest in shooting and handloading is experimentation, and along the way, I've learned a lot of things both good and bad. I'm one of the guys that has had squibs and have pounded several boolits out of barrels.

My number one tip for loading .454 Casull is to avoid using slow burning ball powder with light boolits. Your 300 grainers are fine, but go down to 250 grains or below and your courting squibs. If you want to use the lighter projectiles, use faster burning powders.

I use CCI 400 and 450 primers exclusively in my .454's. I'm not saying they are the best or only primers to use, just that they are what I have experience with. I have noted better consistency when using CCI 450 primers with H-110, WW296, and WC820. Extreme spreads and groups are smaller than when I use CCI400.

You didn't state how much experience you have shooting a .454....if it's zero, I suggest you start with reduced loads (your Unique is fine for this). Hand a .454 Casull loaded with a 300 grain boolit at 1600 fps to someone that has never fired one is a recipe for flinching and fear.

As to the accumulated wear and damage to the gun, it's going to happen eventually. All my guns have erosion to some degree, but it's the price you pay for performance. However, it takes thousands of rounds.

That makes a lot of sense to me. I also heard about the spread with primers someplace, now i'm considering some different primers to test this myself. Lots of experience shooting .454 I dont even notice recoil. I'm mostly concerned about wearing out the gun pre maturely.

I just noticed you're from Helena. I was travelling across the country by motorcycle a few years back. Shortly after I crossed the border into the USA I got lost and ended up in Helena, nice area!
Thanks!

[cs86]

There is good information on here. I wouldn't start out with someone's data unless published. A good starting point is going to be well known book. like hornady, lyman, nosler, etc. Keep some notes of what you have read on forums and see if anything applies to the loads you are working with such as what 44man said. It's a learning curve. Read some good books, read through this forum, and enjoy the hobby. Welcome to the forum.

[dudel]

Darn you hurt all of us.

I don't think that was the intent, even though I tend to agree with MDI on this.

Do you mean what is said here is no value?

Not NO value; but a LOT of noise to find a few gems.

Do you believe gun rags or manuals more then experience?

Personally yes. I know who they are by their name; not some handle. I really don't know the experience of many people here. High post count != experience.

What a very hard thing to say to the best of the best, right here.

Glad to see you haven't lost your sense of humor!

[dverna]

I agree there is a lot of misinformation on any forum. We are dealing with things that can hurt you and others. If you find a load from a source that cannot be verified using published data, an email to the powder company will usually get you an answer.

Common sense should rule. If it sounds iffy, do not do it.

Don Verna

[bobthenailer]

I have a few good reduced loads for the 454 with the 300 gr LFN .
9.0 grs Tightgroup @1,100 fps
28.0 grs of 296 or H110 @1450 fps

[Blackcat]

I agree there is a lot of misinformation on any forum. We are dealing with things that can hurt you and others. If you find a load from a source that cannot be verified using published data, an email to the powder company will usually get you an answer.

Common sense should rule. If it sounds iffy, do not do it.

Don Verna

I agree. I find the info and experience does help, unfortunately you have to take it with a grain or heaping shovel full of salt lol.

I'm mostly taking my time and trying to go by common sense for the most part.

bobthenailer: As it is right now I pretty much settled on 28.5 grains of H110 with a winchester small rifle primer for the 300 grain gas check. I'll run them through the crono and see where that gets me. Your load is about spot on with what I was considering.

Now I just have to figure out how all the dies and what not work again lol.

Thanks everyone

[vernb]

I've found it pretty hard to find reduced loads for the 454 too. My favorite is 23 grains of 2400 under a Lee gc300 wfn

[DougGuy]

bobthenailer: As it is right now I pretty much settled on 28.5 grains of H110 with a winchester small rifle primer for the 300 grain gas check. I'll run them through the crono and see where that gets me. Your load is about spot on with what I was considering.

Need to pay attention to the case volume when you compare boolits. The base of the LFN might sit quite a bit higher in the case than the base of the Lee 300gr RF, so you cannot arbitrarily swap load data with boolits that are the same weight. The COA is not as important as where the base of the boolit sits.

Hodgdon says 28.5gr H110 is the min. starting weight for a 300gr JFP boolit with a COA of 1.775" but they don't give any boolit dimensions so there is no way to interpolate case volume under the seated boolit without a good deal of legwork.