F16 to F22

[mcdaniel.mac]

Gee, you sound like the USAF General's cheering section for dumping the A10's - were you /are you USAF fighter material?

Marine Infantry. The 30mm is overkill for CAS. We got the same effect by having an F18 come in hot with the afterburners up as with the A10, or doing a 20mm gun run. The beaten zone is huge on those things. If we need to smash a target, a missile as more accurate and artillery covers a large area very effectively. We don't use them because they're good, we use them because we have them.

The A10 does have hangtime, so if we want to replace that CAS ability something like the OV10x or maybe the AT802u, which is a light utility plane with light ground armor and a good CAS loadout. Alternatively, we keep using Reapers, which also have good hangtime. Any of those is as CAS capable as an A10.

The JSF can dodge missiles better than the A10, likely better than the Hornets as well. Everything is electronics and manuverability. Someone will doubtless link the "JSF can't dogfight" so i'll look for the debunking on that one.

If I sound like the cheering section for dumping the A10, it's because there's no option for keeping them. There are no more 1980s missile batteries that we need to fly A10's through to hammer enemy armor columns, and the A10's are reaching the end of their service lifes. As the airframes fail, we have to scrap them. There is no option to keep repairing them, because we would be completely rebuilding the aircraft. If we're making all new aircraft with brand new avionics, airframes, new factories, and new pilot training programs then it's time to take a good hard look at that particular aircraft and as why we aren't replacing it with something that will answer the needs of the next 40 years instead of the last 40.

The greatest fault of the American military has been our tendency to prepare for the last war instead of the next one.

[Artful]

Well, the next war seems to be 3d world fighting Islam warriors supplied by our "allies".

The reaper is probably the most cost effective CAS when the A-10's finally wear out or 2035 comes around - which ever is first.

I'll have to look up the OV10x and AT802u

I know the SU-25 Ruskie CAS is pretty good, maybe Vlad can sell those to us after the F-35 turns out to be too expensive to use down low and dirty.

[mcdaniel.mac]

Remember the F35 was also supposed to share duty with the F18 and replace the Harrier to some extent as well.

Hence it's death by 1000 revisions.

[GabbyM]

Here are Boings production numbers from 2015.

http://www.waff.com/story/30909315/b...ter-deliveries

Tow columns are fourth quarter of 2015 then annual total for 2015.

Defense, Space & Security Programs
AEW&C	1				1
AH-64 Apache (New)	5				23
AH-64 Apache (Remanufactured)	5				38
C-17 Globemaster III					5
C-40A					1
CH-47 Chinook (New)	6				41
CH-47 Chinook (Renewed)	10				16
F-15 Models	4				12
F/A-18 Models	7				35
P-8 Models	4				14
Commercial and Civil Satellites	2				3
Military Satellites					1

[AnthonyB]

Many of you guys miss my point. When was the last time the US faced a credible air-to-air threat? The last time a Soldier or Marine needed a dedicated air-to-ground support airframe was two minutes ago.

[AnthonyB]

"The greatest fault of the American military has been our tendency to prepare for the last war instead of the next one."

True for every military in history. But the truth also remains that wars are won on the ground, and an F-22 doesn't offer the grunt anything he can't get from less expensive alternatives.
Tony

[Artful]

The A10 does have hangtime, so if we want to replace that CAS ability something like the OV10x or maybe the AT802u, which is a light utility plane with light ground armor and a good CAS loadout. Alternatively, we keep using Reapers, which also have good hangtime. Any of those is as CAS capable as an A10.

OV-10 Bronco or Super Bronco - it's a dead plane -
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_...l_OV-10_Bronco

Introduction	October 1969
Retired	US (1995)
Status	In limited service
Primary users	United States Marine Corps (historical) United States Air Force(historical) United States Navy(historical) Royal Thai Air Force(historical)
Produced	1965–86
Number built	360

AT802u was tried but passed over for better alternatives
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_Tractor_AT-802

In response to the United States Air Force's LAARprogram and the growing requirement for light counter-insurgency aircraft,^[5] Air Tractor developed an armed model, the AT-802U, in 2008, with engine and cockpit armor, a bulletproof windscreen, self-sealing fuel tanks, and structural reinforcements for the carriage of 9,000 pounds (4,100 kg) of payload. A reinforced wing spar was certified for 12,000 hours of flight time,^[6] and the AT-802U was displayed in 2009 at the Paris Air Show.^[7]
The AT-802 has also been used in counter-drug operations in the USSOUTHCOM AOR by the U.S. Department of State as a delivery vehicle for herbicides and defoliants over narcotics production facilities.
Ten AT-802U were converted by Iomax into an armed configuration with Roketsan Cirit2.75" rockets and guided bombs ^[8] for the UAE Air Force. The UAE operated them until November 2015^[8] when they were replaced by the first three of 24 Archangels on order from Iomax.^[9] The Archangel is based on a similar cropduster airframe, that of the Thrush Model 660,^[10] however to create the Archangel the basic Model 660 undergoes a much more extensive rebuild in the course of its militarization. Six of the UAE AT-802Us were transferred to the Jordanian Air Force.^[11] with a further three being transferred to theYemeni Government Forces where they have been used in the 2015 Yemeni Civil War.

Which after testing and political infighting choose the A-29
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embrae...4_Super_Tucano

EMB 314 / A-29 Super Tucano
A-29 Super Tucano Brazilian Air Force
Role	Attack aircraft andCounter insurgency
National origin	Brazil
Manufacturer	Embraer Defense and Security
First flight	2 June 1999
Introduction	2003
Status	In production
Primary users	Brazilian Air Force Colombian Air Force Ecuadorian Air Force Chilean Air Force
Produced	2003–present
Number built	+190
Unit cost	$9–14 million[1] $430–500/hour (operational cost)[2][3]
Developed from	Embraer EMB 312 Tucano

Which we are providing to Afghan Air Force along with F16's.

[mcdaniel.mac]

OV-10 Bronco or Super Bronco - it's a dead plane -
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_...l_OV-10_Bronco


AT802u was tried but passed over for better alternatives
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_Tractor_AT-802


Which after testing and political infighting choose the A-29
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embrae...4_Super_Tucano

The OV10X was an updated concept Boeing put out recently, completely updated.

The 802u is still viable in an area where you have little or no SAM or air to air threat for local air support. The 802 shines because you can ship everything you need in connex boxes and anyone who can fly a Cessna can pilot one. Unlike traditional fighter planes, a team of mechanics can do a complete rebuild of everything out of parts boxes.

Both are viable replacements for what we're using A10s for now and far cheaper than trying to build new A10s.

But again, a Reaper UAV can do most of that, too.

[Rick Hodges]

Oh come on, replace an obsolete 1974 era A-10 with a less capable 1964 era plane that has less firepower and poorer performance than current helicopters? Four 7.62's blazing? Ineffective at high elevations? At least the proposed A6 can carry more firepower than an infantry weapons squad. Is it too much to expect that they have a least the performance envelope and firepower of a WWII Corsair or P-47?
I agree the 35mm in the A-10 is overkill. All you need for antipersonnel and light truck/vehicle destruction is 50cal or 20mm and use the weight saving for carrying more ammo. If you opt for small slow planes that can't operate at altitude you might just as well buy more choppers. The fixed wing has to bring more to the fight.

[Artful]

Let's for giggles and grins compare
A-10C
30mm cannon - 3,900 rpm
The cannon takes about half a second to come up to speed, so 50 rounds are fired during the first second, 65 or 70 rounds per second thereafter. The gun is accurate enough to place 80 percent of its shots within a 40-foot (12.4 m) diameter circle from 4,000 feet (1,220 m) while in flight.
The A-10 is equipped to carry laser-guided bombs. A-10s usually fly with an ALQ-131 ECM pod under one wing and two AIM-9 Sidewinder air-to-air missiles under the other wing for self-defense.
Max. takeoff weight: 50,000 lb
Performance

• Never exceed speed: 450 knots (518 mph,^[159] 833 km/h) at 5,000 ft (1,500 m) with 18 Mk 82 bombs^[160]
• Maximum speed: 381 knots (439 mph, 706 km/h) at sea level, clean^[159]
• Cruise speed: 300 knots (340 mph, 560 km/h)
• Stall speed: 120 knots (138 mph, 220 km/h) ^[161]
• Combat radius:
  
  • CAS mission: 250 nmi (288 mi, 460 km) at 1.88 hour loiter at 5,000 ft (1,500 m), 10 min combat
  • Anti-armor mission: 252 nmi (290 mi, 467 km), 40 nmi (45 mi, 75 km)) sea-level penetration and exit, 30 min combat
  
  Hardpoints: 11 (8× under-wing and 3× under-fuselage pylon stations) with a capacity of 16,000 lb (7,260 kg) and provisions to carry combinations of:
  Rockets:
  4× LAU-61/LAU-68 rocket pods (each with 19× / 7× Hydra 70 mm rockets, respectively)
  4× LAU-5003 rocket pods (each with 19× CRV7 70 mm rockets)
  6× LAU-10 rocket pods (each with 4× 127 mm (5.0 in) Zuni rockets)
  Missiles:
  2× AIM-9 Sidewinders air-to-air missiles for self-defense
  6× AGM-65 Maverick air-to-surface missiles
  Bombs:
  Mark 80 series of unguided iron bombs or
  Mk 77 incendiary bombs or
  BLU-1, BLU-27/B Rockeye II, Mk20, BL-755[162] and CBU-52/58/71/87/89/97 cluster bombs or
  Paveway series of Laser-guided bombs or
  Joint Direct Attack Munition (A-10C)[163] or
  Wind Corrected Munitions Dispenser (A-10C)
  Other:
  SUU-42A/A Flares/Infrared decoys and chaff dispenser pod or
  AN/ALQ-131 or AN/ALQ-184 ECM pods or
  Lockheed Martin Sniper XR or LITENING targeting pods (A-10C) or
  2× 600 US gallon Sargent Fletcher drop tanks for increased range/loitering time.

A-29 Super Tucano
Payload: 1,500 kg (3,307 lb)
Unit cost
$9–14 million[1]
$430–500/hour (operational cost)

Performance
Maximum speed: 590 km/h (319 knots, 367 mph)
Cruise speed: 520 km/h (281 knots, 323 mph)
Stall speed: 148 km/h (80 knots, 92 mph)
g-limit: +7/-3.5 g)
Range: 720 nmi (827 mi, 1,330 km)
Combat radius: 550 km (300 nmi, 342 mi) (hi-lo-hi profile, 1,500 kg (3,300 lb) of external stores)[174]
Ferry range: 1,541 nmi (1,774 mi, 2,855 km) [175]
Endurance: 8hrs 24mins[175]
Service ceiling: 10,668 m (35,000 ft)
Rate of climb: 24 m/s (1600 fpm)
Armament
Guns: [6]
Internal: (2×) 12.7 mm (0.50 in) 950 rounds per minute FN Herstal M3P machine guns, one in each wing.
pod: 1 20 mm (0.79 in) 650 rounds per minute GIAT M20A1 cannon below the fuselage.
pod: 1 12.7 mm (0.50 in) FN Herstal HMP for M3P machine gun under each wing
pod: up to 4 7.62 mm (0.30 in) 3,000 rounds per minute Dillon Aero M134 Minigun (under development) under wings.[176]
Hardpoints: 5 (two under each wing and one under fuselage centreline) with a capacity of 1,550 kg (3,300 lb)
Rockets:
(4x) pods 70 mm (2.75 in) LM-70/19[178](SBAT-70[185][186])
(4x) pods 70 mm (2.75 in) LAU-68A/G[187]
Missiles:
Air-to-air:
AIM-9L Sidewinder
MAA-1A Piranha
MAA-1B Piranha (under development) [177]
Python 3
Python 4
Air-to-ground:
AGM-65 Maverick[178]
General-purpose bombs:
(10x) Mk 81[6]
(5x) Mk 82[6]
M-117[179]
Incendiary bombs:
BINC-300[180]
Cluster bombs:
BLG-252
Precision-guided bombs:
FPG-82 (under development)[181] Friuli Aeroespacial INS/GPS guidance kit for Mk 82.
SMKB-82[182] – INS/GPS guidance kit for Mk 82.
GBU-54 (under development)[183]
GBU-38 (under development)[183]
GBU-39 (under development)[183]
Paveway II[184]
Lizard – Elbit laser guidance kit.
Griffin – IAI laser guidance kit.
Others:
Chaff & Flare (countermeasures)
FLIR AN/AAQ-22 Star SAFIRE II (Electro-Optical/Infrared Sensors)

Chance Vought F4U Corsair

Empty weight: 8,982 lb (4,073 kg)
Loaded weight: 11,432 lb (5,185 kg)
Performance
Maximum speed: 446 mph (717 km/h) at 26.200 ft (using emergency power)
Stall speed: 89 mph (143 km/h) clean
Range: 1005 mi (1617 km) on internal fuel
Combat radius: 285 nmi (328 mi, 527 km) with one external 150gal tank
Service ceiling: 41,500ft (12,649 m)
Rate of climb: 4,360ft/min (22.1 m/s) at sea-level (using emergency power)
Armament
Guns:
6 × 0.50 in (12.7 mm) AN/M2 Browning machine guns, 400 rounds per gun or
4 × 0.79 in (20 mm) M2 cannon
Rockets: 8 × 5 in (12.7 cm) high velocity aircraft rockets and/or
Bombs: 4,000 pounds (1,800 kg)

P-47 Thunderbolt
Unit cost US$83,000 in 1945
Value: $1,102,897.47 today Annual Inflation: 3.71% Total Inflation: 1228.79%
Empty weight: 10,000 lb (4,535 kg)
Loaded weight: 12,731 lb (5,774.48 kg)
Max. takeoff weight: 17,500 lb (7,938 kg)
Performance
Maximum speed: 443 mph at 29,000 ft (713 km/h at 8,839 m)
Range: 800 mi combat, 1,800 mi ferry (1,290 km / 2,900 km)
Service ceiling: 43,000 ft (13,100 m)
Rate of climb: 3,180 ft/min (16.15 m/s)
Wing loading: 42.43 lb/ft2 ()
Power/mass: 0.204 hp/lb (335 W/kg)
Armament
8 × .50 in (12.7 mm) M2 Browning machine guns (3400 rounds)
Up to 2,500 lb (1,134 kg) of bombs
10 × 5 in (127 mm) unguided rockets

Douglas A-1 Skyraider aka AD
Empty weight: 11,968 lb (5,429 kg)
Loaded weight: 18,106 lb (8,213 kg)
Max. takeoff weight: 25,000 lb (11,340 kg)
Performance
Maximum speed: 322 mph (280 kn, 518 km/h) at 18,000 ft (5,500 m)
Cruise speed: 198 mph (172 kn, 319 km/h)
Range: 1,316 mi (1,144 nmi, 2,115 km)
Service ceiling: 28,500 ft (8,685 m)
Rate of climb: 2,850 ft/min (14.5 m/s)
Wing loading: 45 lb/ft² (220 kg/m²)
Power/mass: 0.15 hp/lb (250 W/kg)
Armament
Guns: 4 × 20 mm (0.79 in) M2 cannon
Other: Up to 8,000 lb (3,600 kg) of ordnance on 15 external hardpoints including bombs, torpedoes, mine dispensers, unguided rockets, and gun pods.

[woodbutcher]

The FG1 Corsair,built by Goodyear was the first AC to excede 400 mph in level flight in 1940.The Japs referred to it as the"Whistling Death".IIRC.at economy cruise at 1800 rpm and 30 in of boost,it would sip fuel and do 200 mph to boot.In vehicle terms about 20mpg.Not too shabby for 2000 hp.
Good luck.Have fun.Be safe.
Leo

[dtknowles]

The FG1 Corsair,built by Goodyear was the first AC to excede 400 mph in level flight in 1940.The Japs referred to it as the"Whistling Death".IIRC.at economy cruise at 1800 rpm and 30 in of boost,it would sip fuel and do 200 mph to boot.In vehicle terms about 20mpg.Not too shabby for 2000 hp.
Good luck.Have fun.Be safe.
Leo

I don't think you have the speed record part right. In 1931 Flying the Supermarine S.6B Flt Lt. George Stainforth in S.6B serial S1596 broke the world air speed record reaching 407.5 mph (655.67 km/h).

Tim

[mtnman31]

I love the A-10 and think it does a wonderful job in its role. As much as I hate to see it go, it is old and it does need to go. The A-10 is a purpose built aircraft that does so well because it is doing what it was designed to do. It was not modified from another platform. If the A-10 is going to be replaced, it needs to be replaced with another purpose built aircraft. Currently, NO plane in our inventory was purpose built for the CAS/ground attack role that the A-10 does. Replacing the A-10 with an F-35 is like replacing a meat cleaver with a Swiss army knife. If we aren't going to replace the A-10 with a purpose built aircraft, then I'd suggest filling the role with a combination of other systems we already have until we have a purpose built aircraft to replace it with; i.e. UAVs, helos, Spectre gunships, etc. Stop trying the make the F-35 our all-in-one solution.

[Artful]

New Player in the game...
http://news.yahoo.com/japan-unveils-...004353609.html

Japan on Thursday unveiled its first stealth fighter jet, officials said, with the maiden test flight planned for next month.




The defence ministry's acquisition agency showed off the domestically developed, radar-dodging X-2 fighter at a regional airport near the central city of Komaki.

Its first flight is scheduled in mid-February before delivery to the defence ministry by the end of March next year, the acquisition agency said.

The X-2, developed by Mitsubishi Heavy Industries, measures 14.2 metres (47 feet) long and 9.1 metres wide and was built as a successor to the F-2 fighter jets developed jointly with the United States.

Presently, only the United States, Russia and China have been internationally recognised as having successfully developed and flown manned stealth jets, the agency said.

Japan has reportedly spent about 39.4 billion yen ($332 million) to develop the aircraft.

In November Japan's first domestically produced passenger jet, also developed by Mitsubishi Heavy, made its maiden test flight, a landmark development for the country after being barred from developing aircraft following its defeat in World War II.

[woodbutcher]

@dtknowles.I was referring to production AC.Not purpose built hopped up race/competition AC.
Good luck.Have fun.Be safe.
Leo