Cost vs practicality

[BT Sniper]

There is one more benefit as well that hasn't been mentioned, maybe because it is a grey area, but when others know you can make bullets the trade value can be very good in a times of need. In a time of need that grey area becomes more black and white, there will be those with bullets and those without, hopefully it doesn't come to that but.......

I have always said it is a hobby and one is free to spend as much or as little on their hobbies as they wish, there is certainly worse things we could spend our money on.

Good shooting and swage on!

BT

[Hickory]

1000 .224's are under a $100. Essentially there is no break even point. I am trying to justify buying a set of dies or 6,000-10,000 .224's which could possibly last me a lifetime. Your thoughts?

No matter your age or how much you shoot you can justify buying a swaging out fit in several ways.
1) Making bullets is fun.
2) Make the best bullets you can, having fun doing it, and as many as you are up to making, so that when you pass on your children can realize a monetary gain not only from the bullets but the press & dies.
3) If one of your children becomes interested in swaging, it can be a great money saver for him.
4) Looking at from another aspect, swaging press & dies are cheap, compared to buying a fishing boat & motor, motorcycle, travel trailer/camper, snowmobile that only have seasonal uses and cost money to operate.
You can swage bullets anytime, year round and save or make money with an occasional sale that won't make the ATF react like a kicked hornets nest.
Just some thoughts that might have been overlooked.

[Faret]

my 2¢
If you can afford the 224 die setup, a cost/benefit analysis isn't really necessary. Bottom line is, even if you can't count on the dies paying for themselves in X amount of time, they are a capital expenditure, which you you will likely be able to recoup (much of the investment), at most any point in time.

BUT, when we enter another cycle where it's nearly impossible to procure 224 projectiles, like it was just two/three short years ago...you will be extremely happy you invested your time and money into swaging your own.

Which is why I already have a set in hand!

[DukeInFlorida]

My thoughts:
1) I started swaging a bit later in life than most of you. I'm 64 now, and started swaging within the past 10 years. I've already saved tons of money, when all of the tooling and accessory costs are taken into consideration. And, the tools will last well beyond my lifetime. My son is also getting interested, and he's only 30.
2) I can adjust the tools, and produce a whole range of bullet weights and nose configurations, from XTP style hollow points, to solid nose bullets. I can make .22, .30. .40, .44, .45, and .500 sized bullets at this point. So, no matter what task I want the bullets for, I can make them in a variety of weights, etc. And, never worry if the store has what I want.
3) God forbid..... but if our government ever shuts down all the bullet manufacturers from selling bullets retail, I don't give a damn. Between castings for everything that I shoot, and swaged bullets which cover 80 percent of what I shoot, I can keep in practice, regardless.
4) If the end of the earth as we know it ever comes, I can make bullets with available on hand raw materials, without ever worrying about if the retail stores are even open or in existence.
5) Even if the zombies never attack, or the govt never interferes with commercial manufacturing and retail sales of bullets, I am all set, and saving money all the way.

I have several shooting hobbies, and love them all equally: shooting, casting, swaging. I don't golf. I don't scuba dive, or jump out of airplanes. I don't play softball, or football. Shooting is my basic hobby, and has been for decades. The casting and swaging hobbies support my shooting hobby. I'm a very happy guy.

[Hick]

Ah but Hick... you're in the Swaging forum! Here in this forum we put those nekkid boolits back into some proper metal clothing. (Typically at great expense to our wallets lol)

I stand chastised for mentioning cast in a Swaging Forum (lol)-- But I also reload FMJ and save a lot over factory loads for all three of my rifles (32 WS, 30-30 and M1). Even with the 32 WS I can load for 1/3 of what the factory ammo costs. Also, being able to try lots of bullets that the factories won't sell adds to the fun-- like using long pointed bullets in the Model 94 30-30 as single shot loads. I guess I need to study up on swaging.

[MrWolf]

There is also the most important reason - I want it. My money, I earned it.

[Artful]

In a time of need that grey area becomes more black and white, there will be those with bullets and those without, hopefully it doesn't come to that but.......

Good shooting and swage on!

BT

An Excellent point and not to be taken lightly in this day and age. But you will still need empty brass, primers, powder to use the bullets.

[pertnear]

I like to make .224 from RF jackets. Yes it is fun & they shoot good but justifying the cost of the set-up would be difficult with bulk .224 bullets being pretty reasonable in cost. But I too, without being too paranoid, see this as an opportunity to keep me shooting while our government tries to choke shooting out of existence any way it can. My other justification (i.e. rationalization) was the resale value of the dies/equipment. Look around at the prices for used bullet swaging dies, assuming you can find any. Yes you can look at swaging dies as a luxury, but the value will always remain high or even profitable if the anti-gun climate chokes all gun items into scarcity.

FWIW...

[goblism]

I look at them as investments and also simply part of a hobby. I got into swaging because I wanted more control over my ammuination, i link to tinker with stuff, as well as "save money." Like all of my hobbies to save money I end up saving nothing and get to enjoy the hobby more. Don't try and rationalize the costs involved in something you enjoy doing. If you are doing swaging to truly save money I would advise to pick up a few extra hours at work and buy bulk bullets, you will save nothing if you don't enjoy the swaging process.

[BT Sniper]

An Excellent point and not to be taken lightly in this day and age. But you will still need empty brass, primers, powder to use the bullets.

True!

When I started, I traded a lot of what I made for things I didn't have a lot of. Now I have more scrap brass components to make bullets with then I know what to do with. So if the day comes I'll have to find the guy that has a lot of powder and primers to trade projectiles for

Swage on!

BT

[fredj338]

I bought a set of BT's 224 dies, love making the bullets, but I won't ever get ROI on them. Even at $800, that is like 10,000 bullets. I've made right at 1000, satisfied I could make a bullet at least as accurate as bulk 55gr FMJ, then set them aside. I have the knowledge & ability, about 10k 222lr jackets, lead is only a parking lot away. So if I have to make my own, living in Kalifornistan one never knows, I can keep shooting when others are scrounging bullets.

[plus1hdcp]

I bought a set of BT's 224 dies, love making the bullets, but I won't ever get ROI on them. Even at $800, that is like 10,000 bullets. I've made right at 1000, satisfied I could make a bullet at least as accurate as bulk 55gr FMJ, then set them aside. I have the knowledge & ability, about 10k 222lr jackets, lead is only a parking lot away. So if I have to make my own, living in Kalifornistan one never knows, I can keep shooting when others are scrounging bullets.

Well said. Also, during the last downturn I had the ability to roll my own and take my dad and son out to the range without rationing bullets. It was also nice to simply have the bullets. Good luck on your endeavors.

[tenx]

there's the cost break even factor but also consider your time involved. Also a big factor for me is I can sit on a quantity of powder and primers and make boolits when needed. Boolits are normally the most expensive single item so that allows more funds for primers and such. Besides it allows me to do more shooting without affecting family finances and keeping peace in the house with the better half. I cast most all pistol boolits and swage 22's from rimfire and make 35 cal rifle boolits using 9mm brass. I'm careful to minimize the time spent away from the family playing with boolits.

[rbuck351]

I don't think I have put $100 worth of jacketed rifle bullets down range in the last ten years and I probably haven't shot $5 worth of jacketed pistol bullets in the last ten years that I paid for. I don't see much point in covering a boolit for a pistol as they don't seem to work any better. I have shot a bunch of cast boolits and have them working well enough to shoot anything I need shot within 200 + yds. I don't think I will live long enough to make a set of swaging dies cost effective. I retire soon and will probably make a die set for making .224 from 22lr cases just to see if I can.

[Prospector Howard]

It's not rocket surgery for me. It's all about how fast you're shooting the bullets, how cheap and easy it is to get the jacket material, and how much work to make the jackets and the bullets. .223's from .22 cases makes the most sense by a long shot. Cast is a waste of time at the velocities that make sense for the round, and the jackets are free, easy to make, and very plentiful. .243's from .22 magnum and 17 hmr cases comes in second, for mostly the same reasons. Just a little harder to source cases for jackets and a little more work trimming them the right length. The .44 bullets I make from .40 s&w cases comes in third because they're pretty easy to make, I find alot of free .40 cases, and I shoot most of them in my Win lever rifle. If I was shooting pistol only, I probably wouldn't go through the effort to swage them. I'm also making 8mm bullets from drawn 9mm and trimmed and drawn .223 cases but it's alot of work. I see some on here working their tails off swaging pistol bullets for 9mm, .40 cal and .45 and it doesn't make much sense to me. It's neat to say look what I can do, I can make bullets that look just like XTP's; but with the cost of the dies and work involved, I really don't get it. Just buy a box if you need some, how many will you need anyway? For general pistol shooting, practice, and range time; cast makes the most sense for the velocities you shoot those rounds. Just my 2 cents. That and a dollar will get you a cup of coffee.

[guywitha3006]

Another reason for going swaged over cast is supressor use. My 30 caliber can is sealed and not user serviceable, as is the 45 can I want to get in the near future. I have shot powder coated subsonic through my .30 caliber can but I think I have more accuracy potential with swaged. Also the thought of hollow pointed cast boolits seems way to tedious to make enough to practice regularly with.

[rbuck351]

I haven't tried swaging, but I'm thinking it would be much less tedious and faster to use an NOE 4cav HP mold and a Star sizer to make a bunch of HP boolits than buying a set of swag dies and jackets and core cutter and lead wire or core mold then seating the core then swaging one bullet at a time. I have never swaged so am I missing something here. i understand the can thing but why would you buy a non serviceable can. Don't they eventually fill with crud even shooting jacketed. Can you shoot a 45 good enough to need the better accuracy of a jacketed bullet? if you can, you are a better shot than I. Best I can do is about 2" at 50yds with cast in my 1911. Rifle is a bit different as sub MOA is not easy with cast. I don't have bench guns and with my hunting rifles, about 1 1/2" @100 is about as good as i can do with cast. The 20 or 30 jacketed rifle bullets I shoot in a year just wouldn't pay off for swaging stuff.