M1 Garand cast bullet seating problems.

[OptimusPanda]

I seem to be dealing with a problem in my new cast M1 loads. So lets start with a few numbers and get those out of the way. The rifle slugs at .3095". Bullets lee 312-185 and are sized to .310", gas checked, and lubed with the 666+1 lube. Powder charge is 36 grains of imr4895. Now, I have tested this load and it cycles fine, doesn't lead, will lock the oprod back when empty, and is accurate enough for what I am after. Now the problems....

Initially the bullets seemed to want to seat in the case necks crooked. I did use a lee universal expander the flare the case mouths to accept them (otherwise there was no way they were going in). Loaded 20 or so up. Maybe half the loaded cartridges fail to chamber with zero force, and the bullets are noticeably crooked or can be seen by rolling the cartridge on a flat table. I had assumed that something wasn't going right in flaring the mouths. So I borrowed the decapping and expanding rod from my 7.62x54r set that has a bigger expander on it, threaded it into the 30-06 sizing die and made a few more. This time the lee universal expander was not needed as the bullets can be held while seated and do not shave on the way in. This resulted in less crooked bullets, but still way too many to call a "fix".

I am running out of ideas on what the problem here is. So please chime in with yours! If anyone's interested I can post some pics.

[30CAL-TEXAN]

I had some issues with run-out in 30-06 when I first attempted cast. I got a Lyman M-die and that helped immensely.

[Blammer]

I'd suggest, as been already the Lyman M die .
OR since you have the Lee universal one, head over to NOE's site and pick up the neck expander you need for it that will work on the Lee die.

I think this is the one you need.

http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/product...oducts_id=1509

[30CAL-TEXAN]

Dang, I'm going to have to go check out the NOE site. I didn't know they were making those!

[HangFireW8]

You need a larger neck than either die set provided.

Do what I did, have Buckshot custom make you an expander ball.

[Scharfschuetze]

Do what I did, have Buckshot custom make you an expander ball.

Always a good option. You can PM him under his nom de plume: Buckshot

Another option is the RCBS unit. This is mine with several plugs from .307" to .312"

[lobogunleather]

Lyman M-die. Started using them for cast bullets 30-+ years ago, then started using them for all reloading.

[Nowherefound]

As was already mentioned the NOE expander plugs are really fantastic. I probably have 15 of them for the various things I reload, couldn't be more happy with them.

[OptimusPanda]

Just ordered one of the lyman m dies. Should arrive soon and get this project squared away. Although the next time I order an NOE mold I will have to have a few of those expanders added to my cart. Thanks for the responses guys. I am puzzled though that the 7.62x54r expander didn't work as well as I had hoped. I would have thought that seating a .310" cast bullet using an expander for .311" bullets would have been plenty. Oh well, now I wont have two jumbled die sets.

[30CAL-TEXAN]

Well the expander isn't really supposed to open up the neck too large or you would have no tension but I know what you mean, your 7.62x54R set must be like mine. I haven't really loaded up much of that caliber yet but I was quite surprised how tight the necks were.I remember thinking that the expander should have been much larger.

[Scharfschuetze]

I like to have the internal diameter of the necks about .002" to .003" less than the diameter of the boolit. So for a .311" boolit, I'll use a plug of .309" to allow for about a .001" spring back of the brass after expanding it. That's why there are several diameter plugs in the RCBS die that I use for the various 30 cal rifles. See the photo in post number six.

By doing so, I can usually achieve bullet run outs of less than .004" with cast boolits from a good mould and less with jacketed match boolits using an in-line bullet seater.

[Motor]

I use the "31" for 7.62x54R M die and it works great. My boolits are .3125" (M39 Finn)

Motor

[OptimusPanda]

My lyman m die showed up in the mail today. For fun I expanded 3 case necks, seated the bullets, and used the lee FCD to crimp them together. When rolled on the table they exhibit nearly zero wobble from the bullets being off center. They seem to chamber fine as well. Poor neck tension though, although I really should readjust the FCD (I just screwed it in where I left it). I was able to push the boolit all the way into the case with finger pressure, maybe 15 pounds.

[Scharfschuetze]

Measure your internal diameter of your necks after expanding. Ideally you'll want about a -.003" reduction from the sized diameter of your boolit. That'll give you plenty of tension to hold the boolit in place. I don't crimp with this procedure, I just use a taper crimp die to take the flare off of the case. To be honest, I've never had any issues in not removing the flare either. The M1 will eat 'em up as long as you have the proper neck tension.

[Motor]

OP: A lot of guys don't crimp after using the M die.

If you insist on crimping I suggest that you back off your FCD and adjust it down in small increments until you get what you want. The FCD has small raised sections in it and they should be the only part of the die contacting the case neck. If you adjust down to where these "feet" are fully below the neck diameter you will begin to crush the boolit.

Motor

[OptimusPanda]

Ok, so here's another update on this. While the M die did help, I think the problem rests with my sizing die somehow. Runout was still a high until I ran the sizing die with no decapping stem inside. What finally seemed to solve all the problems and have yet to find a bad cartidge yet is: Resize (without the decapping stem in) all the cases, rotate 90 degrees, resize again, expand the necks with the m die, then seat. I think someone fed the gremlins after midnight.

[Scharfschuetze]

Runout was still a high until I ran the sizing die with no decapping stem inside.

Not uncommon. For my long range (600 to 1,000 yard) jacketed loads and all cast boolit loads, I also remove the factory expander button and then use the proper size plug in my RCBS or Lyman M Die. Runout is reduced significantly.

[tygar]

NOE expander plugs work super.