FAL cast bullet load

[roysha]

Does anyone have a successful cast bullet load for the FAL?

I'm not having any luck so far. If I get the rifle to cycle, the accuracy is out the window and if I get somewhat reasonable accuracy the rifle will not even begin to cycle.

The closest I have come is with the Lee 230 grain but I am getting some indication of tumbling. Perhaps it is because of the rather close range that I'm shooting (50 yards) but I don't think going to a longer range is going to do much except exacerbate the problem.

[Larry Gibson]

The info in BruceB's thread is applicable to your FAL.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...pringfield-M1A

Additionally you may have a 12" twist barrel in your FAL and the 230 gr bullet may not be properly stabilizing.

Larry Gibson

[roysha]

Excellent. Thank you.

[Ithaca Gunner]

Larry gave you good direction. I haven't got an FAL, however the closest I've come to happiness in my Winchester M-70 .308 1:12 twist is with the Lyman 311332. As cast they run right around 186gr. from my alloy, coming in second is the 311299 which weighs in at 204gr. average. Seems the Lyman 311332 is a much underestimated and not too common mold in my opinion, but still in Lyman's inventory, it's the 311334's little brother.

[vzerone]

Well you get the action to cycle and accuracy deteriorates some causes are wrong alloy, wrong powder speed, or a combo of powder/pressure wrong for alloy. Those are just some. Another is bullet fit. Fit the throat if the chamber will accept it and more then likely will if it's a NATO chamber. Do a pound cast and see what throat your have. My guess would be .312 and up. I believe if you solve your higher velocity problem that your heavier bullet may stabilize in that 12 twist. It is true also that it stabilizes, but doesn't show until further yardage. Called going to sleep. I've found cast to be more forgiving with too slow a twist for heavier bullets and I believe that is because it's not really the weight that determined the twist rate, but the length of the bullet. In that respect cast bullets are normally shorter then their cousins the j-words in equal weights.

[tbx-4]

I'm no expert on cast bullets but I do know the FAL is very rough on a cartridge when loading...

Bullets get slammed pretty hard when stripped from magazine and sent up the feed ramp into the chamber. The angle is pretty steep when the bullet hits the feed ramp. As it comes off the feed ramp it hits the top of the chamber and straightens out again. It takes a lot of forced to load a cartridge and the bullet takes most of that force on the top and bottom sides. It's like it's trying to pull the bullet from the case.

I've seen mil-surp FMJ bullets knocked off concentric by the rough loading of the FAL. Also, I was testing some new DSA mags for feed by manually cycling rounds through the rifle. Second time I cycled the same cartridges through, two bullets came completely out of the case. The cartridges were noticeably scratched and dented from the bullet to the rim. FAL's are just plane rough on a cartridge...

So, that all being said... I think you might have an issue keeping the bullet concentric in the case on a FAL.

[cbashooter]

160-180g cast of linotype(165 sil,180sp,saeco 311 etc..) with 30g of IMR4895.reliable and 2-3 moa accuracy. The piston gets quite fouled and was a pain to remove after about 100 shots.

[historicfirearms]

I have had good luck with the 311299 and 4895 powder. Look in the Bruce B link above for loads. It is true that the FAL is hard on bullets as the cartridge loads from magazine to chamber. I believe that is why the FAL has a reputation for mediocre accuracy. The rails of the receiver along both sides of an inserted magazine's feed lips can be "tuned" to adjust how the cartridge feeds, but it is serious work for a real FAL gunsmith.

[tbx-4]

... It is true that the FAL is hard on bullets as the cartridge loads from magazine to chamber. I believe that is why the FAL has a reputation for mediocre accuracy...

Loading the round is only part of the issue... The other main problem with FAL accuracy is that the rear sight is attached to the lower receiver but the front sight is mounted on the gas block which is attached to the barrel which is screwed into the upper receiver. Any play between the upper and lower receiver, even microscopic, is amplified at the barrel end. Not to mention the factory mil sight is sloppy in its own right adding even more to the poor accuracy.

Then there's the issue of the tilting bolt not returning exactly the same place after every shot....

Now before all the FAL lovers give me a hard time let me say the FAL in stock configuration is plenty accurate for it's intended purpose. That is, to hit an enemy combatant at 300-400 yrds max range and be easy to field strip and maintain. In this respect the FAL excels.

The FAL was never intended to be a target rifle even though some have tweeked pretty good accuracy out of a few. But that's in spite of the design not because of it. It's a battle rifle not a DMR.

[gishooter]

roysha, I use the following load in my FALs with great success:Lyman 311291 cast from #2 alloy and water dropped. Sized .310, Hornady gas check and lubed with LARS 2500 white label. Cases are LC, Primers are WLR. Powder charge is 28 gains of IMR 4895 and a 1/2 grain tuft of dacron. I turn the gas all the way off on the gas regulator. The rifles all function well with the gas all off or open one or two clicks. Depends on the size of your rifles gas port. These rounds feed from the magazine and chamber just fine. Accuracy is excellent out to 100 meters. Easily comparable to mil-surp ball ammo in my rifles. I've used this same load to hunt white tails for the past 5 years. All one shot kills. See my post under the hunting sub-forum for pictures from this last hunting season.
My six different FAL rifles are all metric versions. Specifically Austrian STG-58 pattern. Arguably the best of the FAL patterns. These are assembled on either Imbel or early DSA receivers on mint condition STG kits. Barrels, bolts, sights, etc were like new. I've built or helped build at least two dozen of these metric pattern FALs since the mid-90s when tons of FAL kits were coming into the country. The kits were from de-milled rifles that ranged from arms room rack queens to battle field discards and everything in between. They were both Inch pattern and metric pattern rifles from multiple arsenals. So lots of variations exist worldwide. You see a wide spectrum of kit built FAL pattern rifles here in the US. Using a good FAL kit with a quality receiver and compliance parts and put together by someone who knows what they are doing results in a tough, reliable battle rifle. And they are accurate as well. I've surprised more than a few M-14 cult snobs at the range with mine. But if your rifle started out with a well worn barrel and a bad crown it will of course have some issues. I usually clean up the crown in my lathe as part of a build unless the barrel is in excellent shape. I've also built a few M-1 Garands, and M-14 clones. Still have a lot of parts for each. I would not hesitate to go into harms way with any of them. For more information on FAL pattern rifles go check out www.FALFiles.com
"The FAL Rifle" Classic edition by R Blake Stevens is my go to reference book on FAL variants, design, history, etc.

[gishooter]

And I do not get any leading in my rifles with that load.

[Tracy]

Great post, gishooter. Care to disclose your Files username? If not, I understand.

I've been shooting the 200 grain Lee boolit in my Imbel. Powder coated, water quenched, gas checked, sized .309". ~45 grains wc872 with a ~5 grain kicker of Vectan AO, which is similar to Herco.
I haven't shot enough of it to provide any velocity or accuracy data, but it does feed and function fine. Shoots clean, too. That's what the kicker charge does for it.

[gishooter]

Sure, absolutely nothing to hide. It is the same handle as here "GIshooter". By the way my load functions just as good out of my M-14 clones. Very mild shooting and cheap way to practice with my "serious" rifles. Never tried wc872 out of mine. If I had it in quantity I would certainly try it. I have several kegs still of IMR-4895 and it is my main powder for .308.

[Tracy]

IMR-4895 has been my go-to powder for quite a few years too, but I only have one jug left and it's not available as surplus any more.