Case sizing problem?

[tking308]

Ok, I'm stumped. Hopefully someone here can help.
I'm reloading 223 for my AR. Out of nowhere my loads are jamming in the chamber. So much so that pulling the charging handle and bolt back are almost impossible. Here are the specifics. Same gun, once fired LC brass (LC 06), same bullets, primer, powder. Dies (Lee) had not been changed since the last time I loaded rounds that still function perfectly. In an attempt to figure this out, I started from scratch setting up the dies per instructions. Still get the same result. Now the really weird part. This same brass that I've fired before (now 2X fired) full length resized and loaded exactly the same functions fine. Something is happening in the initial resizing that isn't happening when resizing the twice fired brass. I purchased this brass in one lot as 1x fired brass and until now had no problems loading it. I'm at a loss on where to go from here. Could my sizing die be failing to fully resize the 1x fired but still size the 2x enough that it will function?

[tking308]

To clarify, they are jamming when I drop the bolt on the loaded magazine.

[rockshooter]

a case gauge would be a good thing to get. I suspect that your cases need trimming
Loren

[jsizemore]

!x fired in a roomy chamber. You'll need a small base sizing die for the first sizing. After that you can go back to the regular sizing die.

[GabbyM]

I'd check two things. One the case length as mentioned.
2nd, it's not that uncommon to pull the shoulder up when retracting the expander ball through the neck on the up stroke. You will notice a hard pull on the handle. If you were not using graphite or some lube inside the case neck that's a real possibility. Necks work harden so by the third firing they would be harder to size than first time around. Some dies oversize the neck so lifting the button through gets even harder. Carbide buttons are nice.

3rd one that just dawned on me. Buckling the case or neck from over crimp . That can happen along with a long case since the excess case length causes the die to hit to hard on the mouth.

[runfiverun]

do the lee dies have that stupid rubber thing on the not so locking ring?
quite often that last quarter turn on the die after it touches the shell holder is the difference between a round chambering and it not chambering.
especially if that brass has been stretched out of shape in a rifle going really fast or one that is pulling on the case while it's still gripping the chamber walls, or most likely both.

[EDG]

>>Could my sizing die be failing to fully resize the 1x fired but still size the 2x enough that it will function?<<

What kind of press are you using?
Have you changed your case lubing technique or your case lube?

There are several things that can affect the chambering of rounds.

1. Make sure your die setting is correct. If you have been using the die all the way down make sure it is set with the correct shell holder.

2. Clean your brass so it sizes easily if you have a tumbler or an acid type case cleaner like Brichwood Casey sells.

3. Lube the inside of all the case necks

4. Lube each case with your best thorough technique. I have heard a lot of complaints about the spray lubes so use something like Imperial on your fingers.

5. Size your cases with an eye toward giving the brass time to move.
A. Size the case by raising the ram slowly and allowing it to dwell 3 to 5 seconds at the top of the stroke.
B. You may not be able to spin the cases with the Lee die but this is how I do it with other brands with the short button. Do not pull the case over the expander but pull the case down until the case can be turned about 120 degrees and then size it again slowly as in A including the dwell. Pull down again and rotate 120 degrees and size again as in A. These extra strokes will give the brass enough working and time to move (creep) as far as the die can possibly move it.
C. Check your cases and make sure they chamber. All should be good.

You can vary the lenght from the head to the shoulder several thousandths by the variation in your sizing technique. The variation is not fixed either. Because your technique may change from case to case - different amount of lube, different type of lube, and different speed and dwell or no dwell you can make your cases vary a bit and not know it.

I found this by using a Hornady gauge attached to my calipers.

If you have any doubts take a case that will not chamber and do the following.
Pull the expander out of your die.
Put the die in the press and set it with the correct shell holder.
Lube your case and size it
Pull it out and turn it, and size again slowly
Keep doing this and relube if you need to until you have sized the case 5 to 10 times. Once you can feel that the die will not do any more to the case try it in your chamber. It should chamber easily. This will verify that your die is ok. You just need to change your technique a little.

Beware that if you are crimping your ammo you can mess it up by bulging the neck and or the shoulder so that it will not chamber if you crimp it excessively with a roll crimp die.

[Half Dog]

I noticed my cases were showing signs of springback after the sizing operation. I'll be annealing them soon to get better consistency while resizing.

[tking308]

I've got a hornady case headspace gauge coming tomorrow. Hopefully after that I'll be able to figure this out. I appreciate all the input. After I have a way to measure things appropriately, I'll try some of the suggestions provided.

[GabbyM]

To elaborate on my previous tip.

If you need to pull hard at all to draw the expander button up through the neck. You need to remediate that. Chambering issue is the worse case result. You will never get true straight rounds with a forced button expansion.

Read up on bench rest accuracy technique then keep it in mind when reloading.

[country gent]

Coat a round that stuck with a black magic marker from rim to mouth. (Remove firing pin from rifle for saftey) and point in a safe direction. Chamber and extract round. rub marks should be visible where the problem is. How many rounds have you dies loaded? Soulders may be being pulled up or not pushed back correctly on once fired. Lubing with dry lube helps alot here. A film container or small pill bottle with lead shot or plastic bbs and some motor mica, graphie or other dry lube will lube inside case necks nicely. Pour in shot and a small amount of dry lube. shake for a few mins to distribute (with secure lid run thru with a batch of brass in you polisher to distibute lube and impregnate shot) Dip case mouth into shot and a nice even coating is applied. A caliber specific nylon bore bruh can be tapped into bottom and used also. Also check the cases rims for extractor or ejector damage.

[tking308]

Apparently the problem was simply that I didn't have the die set up correctly. I started all over again setting the die up per instructions and that appears to have been the problem. Thanks again for all the help.

[troyboy]

It is usually the simple things. Always start with the basics.

[Wayne Smith]

But in the process you got a tremendous education in reloading. When things go right we learn nothing but to keep doing the same thing. It's when things go wrong that we need to pay attention, that's when the learning occurs.

[Fishman]

But in the process you got a tremendous education in reloading. When things go right we learn nothing but to keep doing the same thing. It's when things go wrong that we need to pay attention, that's when the learning occurs.

And many of the rest of us learned a thing or two as well so we can avoid some of those issues. Good discussion.

[str8wal]

And many of the rest of us learned a thing or two as well so we can avoid some of those issues. Good discussion.

The amount of information I have gleened through the discussion of other's mishaps is voluminous.

[OS OK]

Coat a round that stuck with a black magic marker from rim to mouth. (Remove firing pin from rifle for saftey) and point in a safe direction. Chamber and extract round. rub marks should be visible where the problem is. How many rounds have you dies loaded? Soulders may be being pulled up or not pushed back correctly on once fired. Lubing with dry lube helps alot here. A film container or small pill bottle with lead shot or plastic bbs and some motor mica, graphie or other dry lube will lube inside case necks nicely. Pour in shot and a small amount of dry lube. shake for a few mins to distribute (with secure lid run thru with a batch of brass in you polisher to distibute lube and impregnate shot) Dip case mouth into shot and a nice even coating is applied. A caliber specific nylon bore bruh can be tapped into bottom and used also. Also check the cases rims for extractor or ejector damage.

Don't forget this trick…It'll save you from going into such a tailspin that you forget what it was you were trying to fix.
It is good practice to 'mull things over' in your mind but to try to trouble shoot a problem without the offending facts is to 'go down the rabbit hole'…the first part of successfully trouble shooting anything is 'gathering the facts'!

Great call…country gent