Getting sucked in...

[mckenziedrums]

So... purchased several books on Ebay and I'm knee deep in reading up on Swaging. I've read enough to get the basic concepts down but I'm not at the point where I'm looking at making dies just yet

The good news is that after selling a few items and getting my bonus from work I've got a wallet flush with cash waiting to be dumped out in the name of swaging. It looks like this is an excellent way to lighten my wallet so I've been on a quest to find out just where to do that. I've read through quite a few posts here, reviews, etc.

That being said... I thought I'd post and bounce my initial feedback off those of you that have been at this a while. Just for reference my first caliber I'm going to be getting into is .30 since that's the majority of what I shoot. I use 168gr up through heavy 200 gr for target shooting and subsonic hunting. That means I'm looking at a variety of options for sure.

If my research is correct we've got 3 major options for the hobbyist swager... Blackmon, Corbin, and Corbin. Now, there are smaller and possibly less known outfits like our own BT Sniper. For now I'll focus on the first three because they make presses.

So from Blackmon it looks like a full kit with boat tail die is going to run just under $800 with his press. As I understand it he does not have dies in stock right this minute but it's on his to do list. Not sure what kind of time frame that equates to but it sounded like the press at least is easily obtainable. My impression of feedback is that he's very knowledgeable and makes a quality product. I'm tempted because of the savings but I worry that I'll outgrow the press or just want to upgrade to the bigger vertical models for a variety of reasons.

R. Corbin: Probably the most responsive of anyone I've emailed and has given great feedback. The Walnut Hill is an amazing press at an EXTREMELY good price point. Of course, that is probably why he has a back order who knows how long. I'm leaning heavily towards going this route because of the press and the very good pricing all around. It's a little more than Blackmon but I feel like the press itself makes this one of the best options to get started with. It's most likely more than I NEED right now... but what a machine. I have no worries whatsoever about quality here with the dies either. One down side here is the lack of an adapter for other dies. It would be nice to be able to purchase D corbin dies if I find them used or want to try them.

D Corbin: Got a really good email from him today as well that was helpful. Email communication is kind of key for me because I live on the phone on conference calls, etc so it's hard for me to call. The CSP1 press is more money than the Walnut Hill but looks to be like a less robust offering. Now, I am absolutely certain it is a fine machine with a high quality of build but just looking at the builds of the two and the feedback I've seen from folks that already mash bullets it's just not the press that the Walnut Hill is. The CSP-2 gets too cost prohibitive for me, it would make more sense to wait for the Walnut hill. Big win here is that apparently everything I need to get started with 30 cal is sitting on a shelf in stock. So I could empty my wallet tomorrow and be swaging bullets in a matter of weeks.

Decisions... decisions...

Oh and BT Sniper... I love the thread on the 30 cal bullets using 5.7 cases and I've messaged you about the die you use. Unfortunately your die prices right now are a little high for me compared to others when I'm trying to keep a fairly firm limit on my spending for this new hobby. Not a question of the quality which I'm sure they are top notch and I like the fact you've got a normal boat tail but a set is out of the question at the moment I'm afraid.

If I'm off base on my over thinking someone please let me know. I've a habit of digging deeply into the information prior to actually acting on it. Still have some reading to do but I can already tell it's only a matter of time til I pull the trigger on something and get going on this hobby.

[mckenziedrums]

Oh and... what's this I hear about having to go buy up every RCE jacket I can find? Come on guys... this stuff can't get hard to find right now!

[ratboy]

i am waiting on a walnut hill. i have a set of david corbin h dies and a press made from the plans in the sticky. i am very happy with what i have. i just couldnt spend the change on the csp-2. 1400? i mean its a nice press but 1400? i might feel different if i saw one in person.i was hoping to modify the walnut hill to work but my plan changed. i will use it to work with the reloading press style dies i already have and just have two swage presses. once i get caught up i will order a set of tubing jacket dies from richard for the walnut hill. probably wont be until after the beginning of the year at least. i am experimenting with 5.7x28 brass for 30 jackets and they work well for 175 ish grains. i am also experimenting with 9mm for jackets but i have not made any to shoot yet. walnut hill dies dont fit the csp-2. h dies wont fit the walnut hill. there is adapters to use the s dies in a walnut hill or csp-2. i dont know if the walnut hill dies can be adapted to the csp-2 press but i dont think there would be an easy way given the thread sizes. i dont have any of blackmon's equipment so i cant tell you what works with what. richard is cheaper for dies but you might wait longer since i believe it is just him making them which is probably why his prices are better. i guess what i am trying to say is its a compromise somewhere no matter what direction you go. consider this all speculation and hearsay.

[mckenziedrums]

If someone was making one from the diy thread with adapter(s) that would work with both die brands... I'd empty my wallet real quick like... I've looked over that one and it's great but alas metal working is not something I'm set up to do. Could make a really pretty one out of wood but something tells me it wouldn't last long.

If I may ask... how long have you been waiting?

[ratboy]

i wanted to make bmg bullets and david had dies in stock so that was the direction i went. that was really my only deciding factor since i was in the same boat as you. now that i have launched that boat i am simply trying to make sure the bilge pump keeps working.

[ratboy]

If I may ask... how long have you been waiting?

i have learned to wait when i know quality is involved. nobody speaks poorly of their walnut hill so i am waiting. i ordered it on the 26th of october. richard told me recently that he was planning to ship presses in a couple of weeks. he also told me he is coming out with another press that is supposed to be similar to the walnut hill but able to reload 50 bmg. i dont know if that will be the only new feature. said he was hoping to price it around 550. i try to not bother him because if he is answering my emails he is not in the shop making stuff.

[goblism]

One nice thing with he walnut hill is that since the dies are larger that the same dies from Dave corbin can be used in the walnut hill with an adapter.

If you go the dave corbin route I do have a 6s ogive die and core swage die for 30 cal lying around. Bought the 30 cal set used and had these 2 extra dies.

If there are some dies you think you really want get them on order right away. You will likely wait 6 months to a year but you will get high quality for a low price. I have owned dave corbin, Richard corbin, C&H, and BTSNIPER dies and Richards is the best quality product.

I have heard nothing but great things on Larry blackman. I wouldn't hesitate for a second to buy his setup. Heck if I ever decide to expand to 243 I will maybe give his setup a try. ( I only have 224, 264, 308, 357, 366, 366, 400, 423, 429, 451, 458 complete sets right now)

One last thing on the walnut hill. After I got my first one I was so impressed I bought a second in case I would have issues. I now have a second brand new one sitting on the shelf that will likely not get used as they are just very well built

[midnight]

I use two Walnut Hills, a CSP-1, a CSP-2, and a Hydraswage from Richard Corbin. Also a Corbin Mity-Mite for M dies. If I were to start over I would use all Walnut Hill dies and presses except for 50BMG and lead wire extrusion. For those, the Hydraswage can't be beat. Unfortunately, availability is low and prices are high for all new dies. With all the presses I use, I can buy most any good used set of dies that come up for sale, usually at a substantial savings and get them within a week. I can use H, S, M, and Walnut Hill dies plus reloading press type dies for the Rockchuckers.

I prefer Walnut Hill dies over the others and get as many as I can while the getting is good. Richard is about my age so I know he won't be doing this forever.

Bob

[mckenziedrums]

Well first of all... Thank you guys for the great information. Good to know it lines up with my initial impressions as well. Though Bob, I think I might not share that you basically have "collected the whole set" of swaging presses with my wife because I've already taken up the 2 car garage between woodworking and reloading and that many big presses would mean at least a 3 car garage if not a dedicated shop.

I'm used to having to wait a bit for good products so I suppose I can cool my heels for a few months after an order to get what I really want. Heck the stock for my 30-06 target rifle was paid for 7 months ago and after the first couple suppressors you just kinda get used to throwing money out there and waiting to get a chance to play with your new toy I suppose.

As tempting as it is to just order the CSP1 and go to town I had reservations and it seems that I would be better served getting the Walnut Hill at least in the long run. Now, goblism... about that press you have sitting there in a box....

[Bills Shed]

You seem hell bent on the Walnut Hill press. I see that others have not chimed in but I will put in a plug for the CSP press. If you can find any thing wrong with it or bend / damage it you are doing something wrong! It will eat .30 cal pill all day long and you do not need adapters to fit standard dies. To me an adaptor is a possible point of misalignment. I understand the price is up there a bit and that is always an issue, but if you get good service, good gear and a product that will take all standard dies without the need for adapters you will not be doing your self any harm.
Bill

[mckenziedrums]

I wouldn't say hell bent... It's not that I set out to get one over the other. I won't say a negative thing about the CSP other than it appears to not be as beefy as the Walnut Hill. I'll even say there's no real reason I necessarily need the beefier one but when it comes to tools I like to buy the best tool out there for the money. If someone offers a tool that appears to be superior in design and durability for less money it's certainly going to register as a good buy. You make valid points on service and potential alignment issues with adapters as well.

[just bill]

I have different pieces of swaging equipment, however if you are going to do standard rifle and pistol then Blackmon is the way to go. You can probably get a little more leverage with the rock chucker conversion. I have a special .308 die that handles up to 1.40 Burger J4's with no sweat. If you are going for .50's I don't know, however BT makes dies for that and you still need a larger press. You may want to contract Tim at Raging Swaging for a press and dies. Remember there is a turnaround time with all of them.
Bill

[Utah Shooter]

As many here know I would say Larry Blackmon. I however only have his dies for .224 cal. I do not think you will go wrong with ANY of the mentioned die makers in this thread, BT Sniper included. I might stay away from Raging Swaging just because of what has been said here. I would say though if you are going to spend 2 grand I would look into Deutsch Dies.

[clodhopper]

Having two or more presses makes set up much easier. Experimenting with different core weights, seating the core just right, and forming the point on one press can and has been done. Careful measurement and notes are important.
I have a walnut hill, a couple of series II corbins, and some times use either a rockchucker and lee classic cast. My dies are BTSniper, Corbin, RCE, AL Floyd, and some RCBS reloading dies altered for pistol "one step" that's forming the point without previous core seating.

[mckenziedrums]

At the moment I'm thinking of getting a 30 cal setup from RCE along with the Walnut Hill press and then I think there's a 6.5 die setup in stock with Blackmon but I'm having a hard time getting him to return my calls. That would give me 2 presses to start and a couple sets of dies to work with. Seems the hardest part of getting into swaging is ordering stuff

[goblism]

Seems like a solid idea. Keep your eyes peeled and you will be able to get some dies in the used market from time to time. A member here sold me several sets for a reasonable price that I have been thankful for. Many more have come and gone on various auction sites

[mckenziedrums]

Well... I JUST missed the Walnut Hill in our own classifieds today... but... a member happened to have just received a new hydraulic and offered me their Walnut Hill... So, at least one press squared away. I'm not sure what the deal is with Blackmon but he isn't returning my calls so I may opt not to buy a setup from him and maybe I'll just invest in some dies with our own BT instead. I'll give him a couple more days because I like the idea of having 2 presses, with one being a small footprint but it's crazy I'm trying to give someone my business and can't get in touch with them.

In any case... a huge thank you to the member that squared me away with the WH press with Bt's auto eject!

[just bill]

Well... I JUST missed the Walnut Hill in our own classifieds today... but... a member happened to have just received a new hydraulic and offered me their Walnut Hill... So, at least one press squared away. I'm not sure what the deal is with Blackmon but he isn't returning my calls so I may opt not to buy a setup from him and maybe I'll just invest in some dies with our own BT instead. I'll give him a couple more days because I like the idea of having 2 presses, with one being a small footprint but it's crazy I'm trying to give someone my business and can't get in touch with them.

In any case... a huge thank you to the member that squared me away with the WH press with Bt's auto eject!

That is not like Blackmon, his cell may be not taking messages. That happened once before. Just got an email last week. Try that.
Bill

[mckenziedrums]

In my limited experience I'd agree... he was very responsive and then sort of vanished. Not sure if he's maybe starting the holidays early or what. We talked about what I wanted, he said he thought he had something in stock and would get back to me. Called his house and left a message with his wife last week saying I'd like to place an order and since then no reply to email or cell messages. Almost feel like I'm harassing him so I figured I should give it a day or two.

[mckenziedrums]

Well... a month later and I have my Walnut Hill press ( along with a BT setup... ) some 6mm dies from RCE, some 45 dies from BT, and some 30 cal on order from RCE.

Couple days ago I got my core cutter in and was cutting some cores.... made about 200 and then swaged them. Learned a lot of being consistent while doing it and the next ones I think will be better tolerance wise for sure.

When I went to seat the cores into the jackets I discovered why I hear folks talking about having so many punches. Part of the fun of tapered jackets... IllinoisCoyoteHunter came to my rescue with the fastest machined punch ever and last night I was able to polish it down just a bit and get the cores pressed in properly. This morning I had the misfortune of discovering my battery was dead so I couldn't take the kid to daycare. Woke the wife up a bit earlier than she wanted to be up and she took him. Since I didn't have any work to do for an hour I decided to make a few bullets. This is the first bullet and I'm pretty darn happy.



Roughly 95gr 10s 6mm bullet. I tried closing the tip on a few a bit more but the large diameter ejection wire flattens them out if I close them any more than this. Think I may invest in a tipping die here in the future. Now, to make some boat tailed versions!