I got a jug of WST recently and some bottles of Bullseye and Titegroup. Lots of rifle powders on the shelves but still not much pistol powder.
I'll keep looking and buy some when I find it.
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I got a jug of WST recently and some bottles of Bullseye and Titegroup. Lots of rifle powders on the shelves but still not much pistol powder.
I'll keep looking and buy some when I find it.
Just got off the phone with Erik at www.hollowpointmold.com re my Accurate 36-201D blocks, will treat them like air rifle bullet, massive cavity, stay tuned......
The ENEMY is listening.
HE wants to know what YOU know.
Keep it to yourself.
35 rem,
thanks for the test results. What primer did you use?
WSP for the most part. Magnum primers don't help with velocity variations with repeat testing.
180g Mihec's 30/1 lead with the Appalachian American ballistic tips.
Outstanding read gentlemen ! Great if we could get this placed as a sticky !
rick
Got my Accurate 36-201D mold back from Erik, so it is now a 188-grain HP with LARGE cavity.
Attachment 151266
The ENEMY is listening.
HE wants to know what YOU know.
Keep it to yourself.
Interesting, Outpost. I like the heavier HPs, and your's looks like an interesting test subject... I've considered getting a mould to replace swaging the 195-205 grain HPs I'm so fond of. The swaging process is very effective, but very slow... I'd probably shoot a lot more of them if I had a good mould, though.
I agree with Frank46 about the superb article in Handloader magazine (number 298 October 2015). The only shortfall in it is a source for the 140 grain "Man-Stopper" bullets based on the old Webley design or of a mold for the same. The article discusses the problem of getting sufficient velocity out of a short-barrel .38 Special for bullet expansion, and how this particular bullet works extremely well with moderate felt recoil. I'd love to try it myself, if I could find a source. They reference a guy named Bob Hayley in Texas as having produced them.
I’d like to go on record with this.
Not all shooters feel the need for a hollow point bullet in a self defense or military 38 Special or 9mm. Since both rounds deliver about the minimum required penetration to shoot though or near through a man sized torso-upper chest. When using a solid flat nose bullet.
“AMERICA WILL NEVER BE DESTROYED FROM THE OUTSIDE. IF WE FALTER AND LOSE OUR FREEDOMS, IT WILL BE BECAUSE WE DESTROYED OURSELVES.” President Abraham Lincoln
The FBI tests consider 12-18 inches of penetration in gelatin to be needed. Depending upon velocity obtained, a "solid" 148 wadcutter will reach 22 to 24 inches. I'd say that's considerably in excess of the "minimum required." A 9mm with a flatnosed bullet of suitable weight will exceed that by quite a bit. So will a .38 when using a 158 SWC.
Both 9mm and .38 will exceed 12 inches when shooting an expanding bullet, if said bullet doesn't expand too much. So don't worry about penetration with the two calibers. It is there in whatever needed amount, whether to meet requirements or to considerably exceed it.
In pursuit of that goal, quite frankly the Handloader article called bullets that expanded rather too much as more desirable. It appears very evident that the "ideal" bullets in the article would not have met FBI minimums. At the speed and bullet weights used in the article only modestly expanding bullets would have passed muster in terms of penetration, and that's not the bullets/velocities they were calling most suitable.
In this I feel the article erred somewhat.
Last edited by 35remington; 11-01-2015 at 02:34 PM.
Ballistic gel isn't a man.
When the US Army adopted the 45 acp many decades ago. They went to the Chicago stock yards and shot hogs with many different caliber pistols. 38 Special, 9mm Luger, 45 Colt and 30 Luger/Mauser were all well represented. That's what I call a valid test.
In the big cites they remove those HP's out of men everyday. Still alive men BTW.
“AMERICA WILL NEVER BE DESTROYED FROM THE OUTSIDE. IF WE FALTER AND LOSE OUR FREEDOMS, IT WILL BE BECAUSE WE DESTROYED OURSELVES.” President Abraham Lincoln
Since those same gel tests have been correlated to valid results on humans, I'd say they're quite relevant. Penetration concerns with 38's and 9mm's are unfounded given correct expanding OR non expanding ammo. Nor is solid bullet ammo of flatnose style toward the "minimum required" end of the needed penetration range. It is in fact considerably in excess of any needed penetration. I can refer you to any results you consider more relevant as this has been well documented, not only in gelatin but in actual use.
Since the thread has "manstopper" in it, perhaps we'd better stick to men, not beeves. The stockyard tests were on cattle, not hogs.
I have a snub nosed 38spl & 44spl, one of the things I wanted to try/test this winter was to make some of these bullets up and test them in the snub noses. I was going to use rahine hb cast bullets for the test.Originally Posted by Bkeepr
150gr fnhb bullet for the 38spl
[IMG][/IMG]
200gr fnhb bullets for the 44cal's
[IMG][/IMG]
I'm going to make a hp jig for them and test different size/shaped hp's to see what kind of "webley hphb's" work the best.
Was also going to use the same hp jig to test hbhp swc's used in the fbi loads. I have lyman hb molds for the 38spl/358431 & 44spl/429422.
Should be interesting pitting the webley hollow based hollow pointed flat nosed bullets against the fbi hollow based hollow points swc's in the snub nosed 38spl and the 44spl.
I would like to see the results of that test myself.
I will have to find some HPWC and they this out.
I recently picked up a mold from NOE on a group buy. It is a copy of the 358432 with a hollow point. I have yet to load any of them but it looks good so far.
I also have their 148 grain hollow base wadcutter and it shoots really well. It may replace my other molds for target shooting.
A little real life here....A cousin who was county LEO that had a BIG city in it had to put down a mean bulldog. Cousin was wonderful shot ( trophies to prove it) and aimed for dog between the eyes with Glock 9mm with the then current wonderammo. Shot entered one eye and dog went down....and stood back up....second shot in head did the trick. Cousin had seniority to go back to 45 acp pistol and did so that day. No one knows if the 45 would have failed also....
Yes, the dog was dead with the 9mm but didn't know it....
Said cousin also said that when they had to go into the bad area, 10 to 15 cops ,each with a pump shotgun, was the normal way....
I dunno what this proves.....I hope I NEVER need to find out.....
I have both a 12 gauge shotgun and a 38 special revolver in the bedroom. The first is for a crowd, the second is for precise work or single opponents.
I trust the 38 because I know just where the boolit is going when I pull the trigger on it.
I consider proper placement to be much more important than power for stopping a man.
I have seen whitetail deer dropped where they stood by a 22rf short(brain shot) and other deer run for 100 yards with the heart blown out of their chest by a 12 gauge slug. You don't know how an animal is going to respond to a body shot not in the central nervous system. Same for a man.
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| BP | Bronze Point | IMR | Improved Military Rifle | PTD | Pointed |
| BR | Bench Rest | M | Magnum | RN | Round Nose |
| BT | Boat Tail | PL | Power-Lokt | SP | Soft Point |
| C | Compressed Charge | PR | Primer | SPCL | Soft Point "Core-Lokt" |
| HP | Hollow Point | PSPCL | Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" | C.O.L. | Cartridge Overall Length |
| PSP | Pointed Soft Point | Spz | Spitzer Point | SBT | Spitzer Boat Tail |
| LRN | Lead Round Nose | LWC | Lead Wad Cutter | LSWC | Lead Semi Wad Cutter |
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