357 magnum Deer Bullet

[Wolfgang]

Hello everyone,

I am currently working up loads for deer season in my Ruger 77/357 and have come up with several that are fantastic on the accuracy arena easily holding well within an inch at 50 yards if I do my part on the trigger.

The loads are: 180gr. NOE HP/FP- load produces an average velocity of 1531 FPS ten feet from the muzzle.

160gr. Lyman 358156 GC SWC- load produces an average velocity of 1785 FPS ten feet from the muzzle.

158gr. J-word HP- load produces an average velocity of 1700 FPS ten feet from the muzzle.

I would like opinions as to what combination would be prefered for whitetail at 100 yards and closer. (In most cases much closer.) Both NOE either HP or FP group the same. Before everyone starts telling me that there are better calibers out there, I know. This is geared toward my 10 year old son and my wife neither of which handle recoil well. I am not really all that enthused with using the jacketed hp's but I ended up with a lot of them and they do shoot well although no any better than my cast bullets which I prefer.

Please offer up opinions as to what you feel would be the best choice and reasons why you think so. I know that the deer aren't bullet proof and any one of these loads will do the job but I would like your thoughts as to which one will do the job best. My last deer was taken at 40 yards with a 45 ACP with a 200gr. bullet loaded to almost 900 FPS and it was through and through. Again, not the best choice but it got the job done and he was DRT. For what it's worth I will be backing up both my son and my wife with either my 45-70 or more likely my 44 magnum Marlin (Just in case)

Thanks,
Wolfgang

[dilly]

I would think if you got the alloy just right the NOE hollow point would be the deadliest. I'm not a big hunter though so don't overvalue my opinion.

[Hickory]

I would think that the loads you listed would handle any deer here in Ohio.
Your biggest concern would be getting the boolit in the right spot on the deer.

[Blacktail 8541]

All the loads stated will do the job. I would lean to the lyman GC because of not knowing the alloy used for the HP

[harley45]

We have used that 180 gr FP on a few hogs at around 1100 FPS and have had excellent luck as long as shot placement was good! It's a great boolit!

[jhalcott]

You have to get them to practice with the gun and loads to be certain they CAN hit the deers vitals! The practice gets the wife and child used to the gun/load. I believe any of those loads will do. I am not familiar with the legalities of using a .357 in your area, so make sure it IS legal. I'm not saying it can not work as I know of at least one male deer killed with a rimfire rifle.

[Blammer]

I have killed a few with my Win 94 357mag lever gun using NOE 360180 flat point version.

Plenty of bone crushing penetration.

[lobogunleather]

I have taken several deer with a .357 revolver and cast bullets out to about 60 yards. The two molds I have used are the Lee 358-150 SWC and 358-150 SWC-HP, cast with wheel weight metal and loaded in the 1100-1200 FPS levels (revolvers 4" and 6" barrels).

Body shots (heart-lung area) will almost always completely penetrate through-and-through. With the hollow points I have recovered a couple of bullets still inside the chest cavities, penetration was nearly all the way through, and the hollow point cavities simply disintegrated leaving a nearly cylindrical bullet body with little expansion.

The loads you have described when fired from your rifle will have about 500 to 600 FPS greater muzzle velocity and correspondingly higher terminal energy than my revolver loads. Unless a large bone is struck, or a shot is taken at an oblique angle, I would expect any of them to completely penetrate a deer, and I doubt that the hollow point bullets would expand much (if at all) unless cast of a very soft alloy, which could cause other challenges at the velocities you are seeking.

Short version, I would concern myself more with shot placement than anything else, and I would not be counting on any serious expansion of the bullets. A .357" diameter hole through the heart, major arteries, or the lungs can be counted on to put a deer down pretty quickly, and those critical areas comprise a target of about 8" to 10" in diameter. Assuming that your wife and son can consistently keep their shots on a pie plate at 100 yards any deer encountered should be enroute to the freezer pretty quickly.

[Wolfgang]

Thanks for everyones input. As far as my alloy goes, it is around 18 pounds of wheel weight metal with 2 pounds of pure lead added whatever that mix would be. I do know that the bullets expand at least in my berm but that means nothing in an animal. The wife and son will be shooting at an eight inch AR500 steel plate I have hanging on my range and at whatever distance they can consistently go five for five on demand will determine how far away I will allow them to take a crack at a deer. One of my concerns is penetration. I like two holes in them if I can get it as they leak more and faster that way. Penetration on a full on broadside shot would obviously not be any real challenge for the above listed bullets but at less than an optimum angle where larger bones may come into play concerns me. I am working off limited experience with the 357 magnum as I have only shot them with 44 mags, 41 mags, 45 Colts at Ruger loads levels and the 45 ACP mentioned above. These were all handguns and with the exception of the 45 ACP I didn't concern myself too much with shot angles as I was fairly certain that those bullets would reach the vitals no matter what angle shot was presented. With the exception of one deer using a toned down XTP due to a hand injury one year, I have never recovered a bullet. Whatever bullet is chosen, I'm going to load up a bunch and there will be much practice prior to the hunt.

[Lawyerman]

My kids began hunting at the age of 6 with a Marlin 94. They hunted with that rifle killing deer and feral hogs until they were about 13 or so....In that time we killed over a dozen mule deer and DOZENS of feral hogs. Ranges were kept to under 100 yards. Never lost an animal. Never had one go more than 20 yards at most. We used the same load the whole time- the Federal 180 Grain Cast Core. Never recovered a bullet even though on more than one occasion we killed TWO HOGS WITH ONE BULLET. Hogs line up under a feeder side by side....wait.....boom....two flops....So, I can recommend both the .357 magnum and the Federal 180 grain cast core bullet...that combination has put more food on my table over the last 10 years than any other.

[Pumpkinheaver]

My son uses a lever in .357 magnum I load the Lee 158 RNFP over H-110 and it works great. I think any of the loads mentioned will do fine.

[OnHoPr]

I am kinda in a toss up between the 180 & the 160. The jacketed 158 HP at those speeds, while hitting nothing but ribs and lungs should do the job, but from maybe a little buck or doe fever if the harder more meatier shoulder is hit, there might be bullet blowup and very poor penetration. I have a thought in my noodle as to the alloy make up for the speeds of the 160 or cast from both. I am assuming that it is a tougher alloy. The speed of the 160 sounds good and even out to a 100 yds with the metplat should be able to give a good tunnel wound through the lungs even if the shoulder is hit. Same way with the 180 which should give more penetration assurance if more meat and bone are encountered. When getting out to the 100 yd mark the 180 would have slowed down a bit and the HP would help more with expansion to create a somewhat larger tunnel wound. If the shots will be in the average of 40 to 60 yds then the 160 with its speed and metplat may provide a bigger initial smack and a little more disruption of wound channel.

[Lever-man]

I've killed a lot of deer with a Marlin 357 mag using 158 gr JHP bullets. Don't know about velocity never had a chronograph but I was loading max loads of Blue dot. In today's books they are over max! As long as the shots are under 100 yds and in the boiler room or shoulder they will do the job. The cast bullets should do even better but I have not shot one with cast yet, still pretty new at casting.

[white eagle]

I always seem to go towards the heavy side when selecting boolits,bullets for hunting.
Would probably go with the NOE 18 hp alloyed correctly that would seem to me to be ideal
Expansion and mass
my choice of those listed

[43PU]

I have killed a doe at 135 yards with the Lee 358-158grn with 50-50% WW and pure going 1400fps.

I think it's kinda funny on here that people tend to think pistol cal rifles tend to be a little on the light side for hunting, however they have no problems with a 30-30,308,30-06...Etc with a 150-180 grn bullet going 1800fps to kill deer or even elk.

One of my favorite says is..a 30 cal MAY expand but my 357 will never shrink.
43 pu

[Lever-man]

If I ever have to chose only one caliber or one gun it will be my Marlin 357 rifle.

[marshall623]

I believe any of the listed loads will get it done. I can't wait myself to give the NOE -360-180- WFNGC a try have loads for the GP and the 10" Tender. Good luck

[MT Gianni]

The 180 fp will have trouble staying in a deer but if hit correctly they will not go far.

[OnHoPr]

I have killed a doe at 135 yards with the Lee 358-158grn with 50-50% WW and pure going 1400fps.

I think it's kinda funny on here that people tend to think pistol cal rifles tend to be a little on the lig ht side for hunting, however they have no problems with a 30-30,308,30-06...Etc with a 150-180 grn bullet going 1800fps to kill deer or even elk.

One of my favorite says is..a 30 cal MAY expand but my 357 will never shrink.
43 pu

As to your first statement I have seen deer killed with 22s, but I have also seen deer escape with 357s.

As to your second statement I tend to agree with you. If your are pushing the 357 160 gr SWC pert near 1800 fps in a rifle it should be just as effective or more so as the similar boolits in the 30 cals at the same speeds within reasonable distance. The SWC will slow down fast though with its lower BC. The 30 cals though when getting out to the 100 yd mark will have better BC and SD and may work a touch better properly alloyed and possibly HP.

As to your third statement it sounds like it makes good sense to me.lol

[quilbilly]

Several years ago during muzzleloading hunts I used a 45 caliber rifle with 358 cast boolits in sabots. The 125 gr boolits were extraordinarily accurate out to 200 yards and I used them for both coyotes and black tail deer. The several deer I got with them were either DRT or went less than 20 yards (all shots were within 90 yards). The estimated muzzle velocity of that load was about 1700 fps.