ejection pattern , garand ?

[Digger]

been trying to find and have seen it some where ....
ejection pattern with the M-1 ... in reference to load pressures , shells landing at 1:00 o-clock , 3:00 o-clock. or so ....
If indeed they are related .
every one here has been very helpfull in the past , including Larry with load info and I appreciate it very much.
Mine is a "tanker" in 308 and just now added a compensator with a good friends donation and help making it a very enjoyable shooter as of late.
with a load of 26 grains of 4064 and a lyman 311332 the accuracy seems good and the ejection points seem to be at or about 1:00 or 2 at the moment with more testing to be done ....
would be grateful for any input or tid bits
thanks
digger

[Bill*B]

Shuff, who makes a short barrel rifle very much like your "tanker", states that bolt speed is highest with an 11 or 12 o'clock ejection. As the bolt speed slows, the ejection pattern moves to the right and rearward. At the slowest bolt speed which will allow reliable function, cases will be landing at about 5 o'clock.

[country gent]

Ejection is determined by several things, ejector springs tension face angles and condition, extrators shape spring tension and operation. Bolt speed and operating speed. condition of op rod spring. If you look at the front face on the hump of the op rod on most garands you see a patch of brass thats rubed off from it hitting the case giving the slightly forward ejection. This is why you get 7 cases at 1:00 - 2:00 and 1 at 3:00 - 5:00. The last round goes out straighter due the op rod and bolt locking back. When using the sled clips ( single load enhancement device) ejection is all at the 3-5 area since the bolt locks back every shot. This is a modified clip that locks in the reciever and allows a round to be "snapped in and chambered from the clip.

[30CAL-TEXAN]

I don't know how this would affect a 308 tanker but in a regular old 30-06 Garand I have found that my min operable load with IMR 4064 and a 198gr cast boolit will go two completely different directions depending on if I use a Dacron filler.

Without the filler the casings go somewhere in the 1:00 - 3:00 range but add the filler and those things come right back at my head! They usually fly right over the hat rim and hit the top of my head but every once and a while they will test out my safety glasses.

[Digger]

Fascinating gentlemen ! ....
the input here is great , of course with all the variables involved the patterns will be different but love all the descriptions ...
These things one would not find in a book but this true experience speaking.

[leebuilder]

At full power 0100. When i was working up cast they would start to plop out at 0300, once stouter loads were loaded they were lobed at 0100, then thrown at 0100 position at my max cast load, ejection patterns are quite predictable, i knew i was there once they hit the grass ahead of me
be well

[Hardcast416taylor]

Owning and shooting a Garand is 2 fold fun. The first is of course the shooting aspect of the rifle. The second aspect is the searching in the grass for the empty ejected cases on your hands and knees for the next 20 minutes! Just like any other `shuck a-matic` rifle, you have to look for the empties! Before you pounce on me for my heresy about the Garand, I also am a owner.Robert

[Nowherefound]

Hah! Hardcast416 nailed it. when I first decided to cast for my Garands the first load I worked up was a light plinker specifically for the reason I didn't want to hunt down my brass and just wanted to work the action by hand. Now I am working the kinks out of a load that will cycle and prefer the brass to be lightly ejected at the 3:00-4:00 position. I can up my charges but there is nothing positive that happens with accuracy and brass goes everywhere, usually 1:00 in front of the firing line.

[Digger]

Yeah ... the other day as I was going thru a few rounds , another gentleman set up to my right and as he was doing his thing I warned him about my brass flying his way ..... but he was very gracious and even passed my empties back to me.

[Digger]

I don't know how this would affect a 308 tanker but in a regular old 30-06 Garand I have found that my min operable load with IMR 4064 and a 198gr cast boolit will go two completely different directions depending on if I use a Dacron filler.

Without the filler the casings go somewhere in the 1:00 - 3:00 range but add the filler and those things come right back at my head! They usually fly right over the hat rim and hit the top of my head but every once and a while they will test out my safety glasses.

I will have to try that filler with this current plinker load that I use .... maybe get the same results ?

[30CAL-TEXAN]

If yours is anything like mine they'll likely turn around and come back at you.

One thing I have learned about the M1 though - they are all unique in some way. Maybe it is character or just old age but they can defy all logic when trying to nail something down as an absolute.

[Motor]

I agree with the last post. There are generalizations but there is also a lot of individuality. I think you have do some test firing with "known" or standard ammunition to establish a baseline for your particular rifle then go from there.

Motor

[rondog]

Love my '43 Springfield! Great fun to shoot. Always wondered why it sent the brass out in a fan pattern though, now I know.

[too many things]

the VFW used 7 rifles with blanks. 6 for the rifles would put the brass at about 1-2 in front the 7th would drop all at 3. that guy that had the rifle was always on the right
cop give me a ammo can full of WW II ammo . some were tracer but most were ball.
I didn't want to put them in my gun so when I cleaned the guns for the club I would about half clean the bore and put about 50 rounds to use up the ammo. Had same deal with live as with blanks. the 6 would throw the same way and the one would do the 3 oc. Ony difference was the distance. blanks were about 5to6ft and live was 8to10, except the tracers and they didnt go 4ft.

[Digger]

Ejection is determined by several things, ejector springs tension face angles and condition, extrators shape spring tension and operation. Bolt speed and operating speed. condition of op rod spring. If you look at the front face on the hump of the op rod on most garands you see a patch of brass thats rubed off from it hitting the case giving the slightly forward ejection. This is why you get 7 cases at 1:00 - 2:00 and 1 at 3:00 - 5:00. The last round goes out straighter due the op rod and bolt locking back. When using the sled clips ( single load enhancement device) ejection is all at the 3-5 area since the bolt locks back every shot. This is a modified clip that locks in the reciever and allows a round to be "snapped in and chambered from the clip.

Me thinks Country Gent here goes into very nice details and possibilities

[M99SavNut]

My M1(s) have never been fired with cast boolits, but with both my handloaded j-word ammo and the Gov't ammo I used in various NRA High-Power matches the empties almost never landed to the left of the gun, but with absolutely no predictability somewhere on the right side. EXCEPT, when one hit the spotting scope on my right side (I'm a leftie), they almost invariably landed under the collar of my shooting jacket/shirt. And, yes, they were HOT. Hard to maintain one's concentration on the next shot when a hot empty from the last one is sitting on the back of your neck.

However, no matter where the fired case landed, the important point to the folks who designed the thing was that it ALWAYS ejected, and the way was cleared thereby for the next loaded round.

My M1A and my ARs are predictable as to location of the fired empties, but with my Garand I only know they're out there somewhere.

Metal detectors, anyone?

Jess

[Bill*B]

I had to laugh. I admit it's a diversion, and not part of the thread - but I had a Remington Model 8 once that would put those empties right down the neck of my shirt! How fast I traded that one!

[Buckshot]

The action of my Garand was made (according to Scott Duff's info) in Dec 1942. As were lots of Garands, it was a mix of parts. I bought it from J&G Sales in AZ. It was from a big batch brought in from Korea in the late '90's. I had an 01 FFL at the time. This was when you could buy a 'shooter Garand for like $250, M1 Carbines were cheap and dealer cost of Chinese SKS was $69 each if bought in packs of 5. J&G's add said to call and ask for (I forget, call him Jim). Called and asked for Jim. When he came on the line the first thing he asked me was if I was a collector? I said no I wasn't. I was a shooter, and wanted a Garand in great shooting condition.

The rifle I got had the most obnoxious wood on it I'd ever seen. The buttstock was varnished Birch with a big white number that had been painted on with a 1" brush. The rear handguard was an old oiled Walnut piece that was as slick and shiny as polished Aluminum. The front handguard was a new un-sanded fat piece of Birch. I was afraid to be seen at the range with it I figured I could put it inside a couple grocery bags so no one would see it. The local Big 5's (we had 3 of'em within 25 miles) were doing a land office business in them. Cheapest brass at the time was PMC and the areas around the benches would have empty PMC 30-'06 drifted up around the legs like snow.



Kenny the rangemaster was giving me bags of the stuff until I told him I couldn't stand anymore of it! In any event I got rid of that obnoxious wood and ordered new unused Military walnut from Numrich. It was the late stuff (Fat Wood).



I'd acquired a book on the Garand and then went through the rifle piece by piece. It does have an assortment from mid war to late parts. The barrel however, from what I can gather was made in 1965. It looks brand new and guaged from J&G as "new to unused". At the time the least expensive 150gr jacketed bullets (other them FMJ) was Remington Core-Lokt. As I worked a 12 hour shift from 1800 - 0600 unsupervised with pretty much not a lot to do, I spent my spare time FL sizing and trimming 1000 PMC 30-'06 cases. Then with my fairly new Dillon 450 press I loaded up those 1000 cases with the R-P C-L slugs. I'd worked up a very good load using Surplus WC852 Ball, lot# 47287 from GI Brass. The load was 58.0 grs at 2620 fps.

As long as you wanted to shoot it, it would pile ALL it's empties up at 2 o'clock about 6' away from where I stood, or sat.

...................Buckshot

[Digger]

Wow ! Buckshot ....
Beautiful pictures ....
The rifle shows the results of your TLC touch very nicely ..
and thank you for your input here with a bit of your history with that pretty Garand ! ... valuable .
I will have to read more of Scott Duff's information and see the time link with the numbers on my Springfield action also .... even if it is a "tanker".
I can blame it on Buckshot now ....let's start a garand pic thread for some of us that appreciate these beautiful pieces ..
Attachment 149854
addendum:
Checked on the numbers/date list and my action came out in June, 1941 .. my goodness !
Thank you Buckshot .. got me interested in chasing that down.