Interesting Situation with H110 and .454 Casull

[palabman]

I just purchased a Ruger Alaskan in .454 and have been working up some loads with H110. I loaded 6 with 300gr Cast Performance GC and the starting load of 24.7gr H110 (Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook) and Tula SRM primers. The first fired but felt like an extremely light load. The next one felt like a squib and stuck a boolit just into the rifling with clumped powder in the barrel behind the boolit and some still in the cylinder. After checking the revolver and removing the squib I tried a 3rd that did the same thing this time sending the boolit to the end of the barrel.

Here is what it looked like:



I'm going to pull the remaining 3.

The other 6 were loaded with the same H110 but with 27.8 gr of powder and 300gr Hornady XTP MAGs and Tula SRM primers. They worked fine.

Was the charge too light? Like I said, it was Lyman's starting load. This is old powder but it smells and looks okay. There is no clumping in the container and it looked fine when I measured it.

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

[44man]

I told you guys. The SR primer is not good. Worst thing ever. You need max with H110 or 296. NO starting loads.
Cut down .460 brass to use a LP mag and all goes away.
Now confirmation to what I said. Been bashed over it so what will be said?
You are new so did not see.
I am glad you caught it and did not shoot again with a stuck bullet. The primer is wrong and don't let anyone tell you different. The caliber NEEDS a LP magnum primer. Now you will get 50,000 posts to say I am wrong.

[Harter66]

I loaded some for a RBH 45 Colts . I used CCI LPP standard . Those results are very similar to mine, lots of unburned powder, speeds from 900 to 1150 and more than once a very elongated cylinder hiss of the very unnerving sort.

More recently I loaded some for a Rosschester 92' with a rediculusly heavy crimp and CCI mag LPP and at 19.0 H110 with a 257gr 454424 it all came together 20 fps from high to low, little groups and a clean gun .

I can't say for sure if it was the crimp or the primer that solved the burn problem. The books recommend both . I would be suspect of the primers if you have a crimp that is actually into the crimp groove at all .

As an alternate note there was little if any difference between a patched and lubed bullet.

[Tatume]

Here's the first one of the 50,000. It is not the primer. The charge is too light. This caliber needs more powder in order to build pressure and support combustion. The small rifle primer will work just fine if the charge is sufficient. I've seen it many times. Don't even try to shoot light charges. More H110 is better, same for Accurate No. 9.

That said, 44man may be correct that the LP magnum primer could produce better accuracy. I don't know, I've never tested it, and I won't say it's not true unless I've seen it with my own careful tests.

[runfiverun]

yes, the charge was too light with the cast boolit.

think about what did and what didn't work.
your only change was a bullet that takes [and creates] more pressure when it engraves or encounters resistance.
those worked..

[palabman]

yes, the charge was too light with the cast boolit.

Hmmm... I wonder how Lyman arrived at that starting load?

[runfiverun]

by using jacketed data.

[Larry Gibson]

Lyman used a 6" barrel in a Universal Reciever which is a receiver to measure the pressure with via C.U.P. That is not even a vented barrel let alone a revolver with a barrel/cylinder gap such as your revolver. The barrel/cylinder gap of your revolver vents the flame and psi before the H110 powders is burning sufficiently on it's own, hence the scorched but unburned powder and the bullet stopped in the barrel just ahead of the barrel/cylinder gap.

H110 can, even though some think not, not burn sufficiently in some circumstances causing the bullet to stick in the throat/leade of the barrel before the powder burns sufficiently. In rare cases an initial drop in psi before the powder then begins to burn properly is the result and if the bullet does not move or does not move fast enough a "pressure spike may be the result or an SEE. The real danger in the OP's situation is not understanding what happened and firing the next round. The results of that could be catastrophic to say the least.

Larry Gibson

[palabman]

by using jacketed data.

I'm not trying to argue here because the load is definitely too light but this was taken from the 4th Ed of the Lyman Cast Handbook for a Saeco #454 300 Gr. Start load: 24.7 Max load: 27.5.

[palabman]

Lyman used a 6" barrel in a Universal Reciever which is a receiver to measure the pressure with via C.U.P. That is not even a vented barrel let alone a revolver with a barrel/cylinder gap such as your revolver. The barrel/cylinder gap of your revolver vents the flame and psi before the H110 powders is burning sufficiently on it's own, hence the scorched but unburned powder and the bullet stopped in the barrel just ahead of the barrel/cylinder gap.

H110 can, even though some think not, not burn sufficiently in some circumstances causing the bullet to stick in the throat/leade of the barrel before the powder burns sufficiently. In rare cases an initial drop in psi before the powder then begins to burn properly is the result and if the bullet does not move or does not move fast enough a "pressure spike may be the result or an SEE. The real danger in the OP's situation is not understanding what happened and firing the next round. The results of that could be catastrophic to say the least.

Larry Gibson

Ah, you snuck that one in there before I finished typing. . That would explain it. Thanks

[243winxb]

Hows neck tension/bullet pull? The expander should be 3 to 4 thousands smaller than bullet diameter. Measure the brass before and after seating a bullet, has it expanded at least .003" [IMG][/IMG] [IMG][/IMG] Click for larger view.

[palabman]

Hows neck tension/bullet pull? The expander should be 3 to 4 thousands smaller than bullet diameter. Measure the brass before and after seating a bullet, has it expanded at least .003"

That seems fine. 0.4705 without, 0.4745 with. Pretty heavy roll crimp also.

[Harter66]

The cylinder gap wasn't even considered in my situation .that would be a major player in why it works in the 16" carbine and not the revolvers . The mag pistol primers are mandated in the Hogdon data.

[runfiverun]

right.
they showed it with a cast boolit but the data was worked up with a jacketed bullet first. [somewhere else]
then they run the cast boolit load through their equipment to give you data to work from.
it's a whole lot easier to modify data than to make it up from scratch.

[palabman]

I'm just a little surprised Lyman publishes that load without a disclaimer that it is a Contender/Encore or rifle load only. I double checked the manual to make sure I wasn't in the Contender/Encore section in the cast book but they don't even have that section as with Lyman #49. It definitely states that it was tested in the universal receiver.

Oh well, live and learn. I guess I can count my self lucky on that one.

[runfiverun]

no problems it's all a learning situation for everybody.

see my sig line.

[DrCaveman]

You other guys may be right, but 44man wins the "reliabilty" award for proposing an idea that doesnt require such strict guidelines to even get a boolit out the barrel. Why limit myself to +/- .2 grains between (reliable) start load and max load when i can alter a few cases to get a bit wider range available to me for finding a more accurate load?

454 casull was developed with duplex and triplex loads, anything else is a new creation. use at your own risk. I would just load top end 45 colt loads, theyll get the job done and use less powder

[runfiverun]

when dealing with 110/296 you get what you get.
it operates in a narrow window and is full tilt only.
if you want flexibility you need a different powder, I generally use 2400 for the majority of my revolver shooting.
but on the rare occasion I do use H-110 I start right near maximum.
I have seen some loads that give you a 1 grain window to work in and I believe it.

[leftiye]

What he said.

What is H110 and 296 most famous for? Blowing up guns when reduced (reads insufficient) loads are used! Easy solution - don't do anything reduced for any given caliber. Then don't do it again. It ain't the 454, it's the H110. You're lucky all you got was a bunch of question marks.

[bobthenailer]

In my 454 casull's one of my favorite loads is 28.0 grs of 296/H-110 behind a LBT 300 gr gc LFN @ 1,450 fps using a fed SR primer and all the accuracy you could need ,1" or better at 50 yards is normal for this load , fired from a rest and using a 7x power pistol scope