450 Marlin or 45-70 Marlin

[6pt-sika]

First Marlin I ever purchased was in 2000 was a Marlin 1895M in 450 Marlin , the second I purchased very shortly there after was a 1895CB in 45-70 .

Over the course of time I've owned three Marlin's chambered for the 450 and eight for the 45-70 .

When one handloads for either of these cartridges in a post 1972 Marlin 1895 they can be pretty much loaded the same .

The 450 feeds in the loading port just a touch better then the 45-70 and 45-70 brass is easier to find .

If you handload it's kinda six of one and half a dozen of the other .

I like them both although I own neither any longer .

[Geezer in NH]

45-70 The 450 marlin was made for folks who cannot walk, chew gum or reload.

[rosewood]

45-70 availability and options has it all over the 450.

One of the reasons I have not done an AR-15 big bore is that I'm waiting
for the battle over what survives to be one by a single cartridge
(458 SOCOM, 45 Bushmaster, whatever).

Yep, I have considered a large bore AR also, even throw in the .50 beowulf also. But which one will make it? I don't want to be 10-20 years down the road and can't find brass for it. Saw that link someone else posted with the .450 Marlin in the AR-10 platform. That may be a bit more than I care for though.

45-70 brass has been available since 1873.

What Marlin should have done was make the 450 Marlin a lenghtened 45-70. Stretch the case about 1/8" so you could shoot either or in it but it wouldn't chamber in a weaker 45-70 design. Then they would have had something.

[6pt-sika]

Yep, I have considered a large bore AR also, even throw in the .50 beowulf also. But which one will make it? I don't want to be 10-20 years down the road and can't find brass for it. Saw that link someone else posted with the .450 Marlin in the AR-10 platform. That may be a bit more than I care for though.

45-70 brass has been available since 1873.

What Marlin should have done was make the 450 Marlin a lenghtened 45-70. Stretch the case about 1/8" so you could shoot either or in it but it wouldn't chamber in a weaker 45-70 design. Then they would have had something.

If you're committed to a cartridge like the 50 BW or whatever and you think the possibility for lack of long term availability is there you prepare for it when you decide you like the cartridge and buy brass in excess so that's a moot point .

As to the longer 45-70 they made that awhile back they call it the 45-90 .

[thx997303]

I've been happy with my 1895G in 45-70 since I bought it in about 2009. Load it with 350 great boolits, and between 1200 and 1700 fps. Could load faster, but don't see the need.

Ran a group buy on brass for it a while back, (that was plagued with problems, no thanks to starline) and the brass was fairly priced. That same brass has been loaded over and over without a single case being worn out.

The 450 marlin wouldn't do anything the 45-70 cant, and will be more expensive to load for thanks to the brass.

45-70 is my choice in that question.

[rosewood]

If you're committed to a cartridge like the 50 BW or whatever and you think the possibility for lack of long term availability is there you prepare for it when you decide you like the cartridge and buy brass in excess so that's a moot point .

As to the longer 45-70 they made that awhile back they call it the 45-90 .

I guess that wouldn't have worked then cause it could be dropped in an older weaker gun. Oh well. That may be why they went to a proprietary case. Dang lawyers....

[NoAngel]

45-70 The 450 marlin was made for folks who cannot walk, chew gum or reload.

You can say that about a lot of cartridges (depending on your point of view), especially wildcats. ....especially a few I've seen around here.

[rhouser]

I love my marlin 45-70 SS GG. I imagine the 450M would be as good. I guess I am an old man now, because, I just don't know that I could handle more powder (recoil). Maybe in a heavier gun. Each to his own. I am just fine with the 45-70.

My 2 cents. rch

[6pt-sika]

I love my marlin 45-70 SS GG. I imagine the 450M would be as good. I guess I am an old man now, because, I just don't know that I could handle more powder (recoil). Maybe in a heavier gun. Each to his own. I am just fine with the 45-70.

My 2 cents. rch

If you can handle what your 45-70 dishes out when you have full hunting loads then you can handle the 450 Marlin . While I never went up to the 550 grain cast bullets in the 450 as I have in the 45-70 I am of the opinion a handloader can do with one whatever it did with the other .

[Clay M]

The .45/70..
If you handload then there is no reason to have the .450 Marlin.
Also where are you going to get brass for any oddball caliber right now?

[bouncer50]

The .45/70..
If you handload then there is no reason to have the .450 Marlin.
Also where are you going to get brass for any oddball caliber right now?

Good answer , Why buy brass and reloading dies for a oddball. Like the 45 gap round and a few others

[Clay M]

I am afraid that cartridges like the .450 Marlin are a solution for a non existent problem..

[NoAngel]

I am afraid that cartridges like the .450 Marlin are a solution for a non existent problem..

I wouldnt go that far. Bullet weight being equal, the Marlin beats out just about any factory loaded 45/70 unless you buy Buffalo Bore and who the heck wants to pay that??? It's hard for us remember sometimes; not everyone who shoots and hunts is a Handloader.

[Clay M]

Paper ballistic are a good selling point ,but are often deceiving.
I have never felt under gunned with any .45/70 load including black powder and I have been hunting with the cartridge since 71.
I bought my Shiloh Sharps Saddle rifle in .45/70 to use for hunting anything in North America with black powder..
I am confident it will do the job..I wouldn't say that about just any round , but the .45/70 has a long proven track record..
I think Marlin was trying to reinvent the .45/70 with the .450 Marlin..
To give it some kind of new life as if it needs to be resurrected from the grave..
A lot of new cartridges out there I feel are unnecessary , but to each his own..

[utahtrapper]

I have a 450MXLR very very smooth lever gun and extremely accurate. But yes ballistics and I do reload no real difference.
I do like the idea of nearing the 45/90 then we could have used the 45/70 as a 44 special.

[BAGTIC]

45-70 brass is good for the same pressures as standard calibers like the. .270, .308, etc. A Marlin action will give out long before the case does. Even in a strong bolt action or single shot of similar weight you will give out before the case does. The .450 belt adds nothing to case strength. It was designed to provide a proprietary case for a limited market. They could just as easily designed a .45-70 derived case with a slight shoulder just enough so it would not chamber in a standard 45-70 chamber ( .45-70 Improved?). That would have made it possible to use 45-70 cartridges in emergency but where would have been the profit in that approach. Or they could simply have introduced a high pressure 45-70 loading with a new name as in .38 Auto/.38Super.

Follow the money.

[BAGTIC]

In this age of smokeless the 45-90 case doesn't have any advantage over the 45-70. When loaded to the same COL they both have the same case capacity. The advantage actually goes to the 45-70 because the shorter case makes it possible to use bullets with longer more efficient ogives.

[BAGTIC]

More important is their responsibility to protect the company

[drinks]

There is no Marlin co.
It was sold down the river to the great big gun group.

[brassrat]

George Soros is now doing your Marlin gunsmithing..