Bad RCBS dies... really!

[wallenba]

I obtained a US Krag recently and began buying what I needed to reload cast boolits for it. I ordered an RCBS 2 die set and an identical seater as the one in the set. I did so because I like to set them up permanently with Forster die lock rings so I don't have to adjust them each time. One to seat one to crimp. Neither of them can crimp. I can drop a case into the die until it stops at the case web. It won't come close to the crimp ring. Obviously the die body is too long.

I can use one to seat just fine. I've made some 'dummies' OK (minus crimp of course). I'm debating trying to use my chop saw to shorten one.
I know that RCBS will make good on this, but I don't feel like waiting months and months. I ordered a Lee FCD, but I like roll crimps better.

Basically just venting here and wondering if anyone else has had this problem.

[EDG]

You do not have to wait months and months. More like 3 or 4 days.

Where did you get the idea it took months and months?
I had a crooked seater for a 25-06 back about 1976. I mailed the die set with cases and bullets so they could understand why the bullets had so much runout. I could see the seated bullets wobble when rolled across a kitchen table. I got my bullets seated in my cases and a new set of dies back in about 4 days.

[Motor]

I "visit" 3 reloading forums on a regular basis if one thing holds true it is that RCBS has excellent customer service. Call them !!!!

Motor

[wallenba]

You do not have to wait months and months. More like 3 or 4 days.

Where did you get the idea it took months and months?
I had a crooked seater for a 25-06 back about 1976. I mailed the die set with cases and bullets so they could understand why the bullets had so much runout. I could see the seated bullets wobble when rolled across a kitchen table. I got my bullets seated in my cases and a new set of dies back in about 4 days.

Some 30-40 Krag dies are special order on a lot of sites. If I got two bad ones at one place, I'd guess there are a lot of them out there, so I don't want to just ship them back so a warehouseman can pick and send another bad one out. I can't see RCBS expediting making one die if needed. If they have one to ship, good, if they check that one first.
I intend to call them first thing tomorrow. Don't want to send the whole die set back either.

[KnotRight]

Wallenba, I have bought a lot of older dies and some with bent parts. I called RCBS and told them that some of the dies date back to 1977. Without any questions, I had the replacement part with in 5 to 7 days. I even bought a 505 scale off E-bay and had a problem with it. Called RCBS and had whatever replacement parts they had on hand shipped to me in 5 days.

Never have I had any problems with RCBS or Hornady with service issues.

[EDG]

You might double check your case length to be sure it is not a case problem. See if your cases will hit the crimp shoulder when dropped into the die with no shell holder.

If they send you another tell them you have 2 bad ones and send you 2 that have been verified to be good.

Some 30-40 Krag dies are special order on a lot of sites. If I got two bad ones at one place, I'd guess there are a lot of them out there, so I don't want to just ship them back so a warehouseman can pick and send another bad one out. I can't see RCBS expediting making one die if needed. If they have one to ship, good, if they check that one first.
I intend to call them first thing tomorrow. Don't want to send the whole die set back either.

[Char-Gar]

2 thoughts...

1. You don't check such things by dropping a case into the die. You put the case in a shell holder and the die in the press and then you run it up. I would not come to any conclusions until it is done the way it was intended.

2. I don't understand why you would want to crimp cast bullet loads in a Krag rifle. Bullets are not crimped unless used in a tubular magazine and there are no tubular magazine rifles that chamber the 30-40 round.

[EDG]

Perhaps you do not understand the thought process or the manufacturing process.

If the case hits the shoulder in the die with the CASE shoulder then you cannot cut off the die and make it work.
If there is no contact with the case shoulder there is the possibility of cutting off the base of the die.

My interest is
1. Was the die reamed too deep with the correct reamer
2. Or reamed with an incorrect reamer
3. Reamed too deep with a reamer that is incorrectly ground reamer.

2 thoughts...

1. You don't check such things by dropping a case into the die. You put the case in a shell holder and the die in the press and then you run it up. I would not come to any conclusions until it is done the way it was intended.

2. I don't understand why you would want to crimp cast bullet loads in a Krag rifle. Bullets are not crimped unless used in a tubular magazine and there are no tubular magazine rifles that chamber the 30-40 round.

[wallenba]

2 thoughts...

1. You don't check such things by dropping a case into the die. You put the case in a shell holder and the die in the press and then you run it up. I would not come to any conclusions until it is done the way it was intended.

2. I don't understand why you would want to crimp cast bullet loads in a Krag rifle. Bullets are not crimped unless used in a tubular magazine and there are no tubular magazine rifles that chamber the 30-40 round.

Installing into the press, and attempting to crimp, IS, how I found out it is defective.

When it drops into the die body, there is barely enough left showing to get a shell holder on it! Like I said, it comes nowhere near close to the crimp ring at all. Case is stopped from going further into die by unsized portion of the case web.

I called RCBS about an hour ago, no techs were available to take my call. She said they work till about 7:30 PM (their time).
Waiting....

Uncrimped case mouth 'hangs up' when cycling the bolt. Yes, I can hand feed. But not the issue. Issue still is, die is not right.

[bhn22]

Not all seating dies are designed to crimp. What you're seeing as a crimp ring could simply be the end of the finish machined area of the seating die. It's entirely possible that your #2 dies are simply plain bullet seating dies.

[wallenba]

You might double check your case length to be sure it is not a case problem. See if your cases will hit the crimp shoulder when dropped into the die with no shell holder.

If they send you another tell them you have 2 bad ones and send you 2 that have been verified to be good.

These are once fired Remington cases. They are .002" under saami spec OAL. Not nearly enough to matter, as all dies should have enough adjustability in them for MUCH more variation than that. I suspect that internally the die is correct, but that the die was made from die body blank that was just too long. I think 1/2" off the bottom, and this die would function normally.

[wallenba]

Not all seating dies are designed to crimp. What you're seeing as a crimp ring could simply be the end of the finish machined area of the seating die. It's entirely possible that your #2 dies are simply plain bullet seating dies.

I thought of that, and I re-visited all the web sites that sell this die. All of the product descriptions accompanying the item, inferred that they crimp.

[Char-Gar]

I got out my Redding 30-40 seating die and tried a FL sized case with the neck expanded and belled. I also tried a Winchester factory round and this is what I got. My question to you is, are you trying cases in your die that have been neck expanded and belled?

Left pic is Winchester factory round in the die. Next pic to the right is the sized, neck expanded and belled R-P case in the die. The right hand pic is the die, loaded round and case.

Loaded rounds seated in this die will feed through my 4 Krag rifles as slick as snot on a glass door knob and they are not crimped. The seating die will iron out most of the bell. If this die has a crimp ring, which I doubt, the case mouth won't reach it.

Bottom line is I don't think your dies are defective.

[W.R.Buchanan]

I have not heard or seen any basic RCBS seating dies that do not crimp. In fact I usually end up buying an extra seating die for the exact same reason you did.

Do both of your seating dies not crimp the case? if so, both need to go back.

Ran into this problem with Lee Dies in .303 Brit. They no longer crimp, however there is a distinct difference in the outside of the old and new dies so you can tell which ones don't and which ones do.

I ended up buying a used set of RCBS .303 dies and use the seating die for Roll Crimping my Cast Boolits. I use a Lee FCD for Crimping Jacketed Bullets with Cannelures.

Just call RCBS,,, they will fix it.

Randy

[wallenba]

Char-Gar, the case in the pic is a FL sized case, no boolit. My die body is 3.70" long. How long is yours? All I can tell you, is that I can thread the die all the way down over a case till it touches the shell holder, and the neck NEVER makes contact with any part of the inside of the die.

The possibility of no crimp ring in the die is the first question I'm going to put forward to the tech. If that is the case, I'll need to work something else out. To get my Accurate mold boolit seated I do use an 'm' die. It still goes all the way in (with a slight bit of feel of wall contact), but when extracted is not even ironed out much. All the ads say it crimps.

The FL'd case feels nothing.

[scb]

I know this won't fix your problem but, if you are looking for a seating die I'd suggest you try a Vickerman. http://vickermandies.com/html/products.html
You can seat all your 30 cal. cartridges with one die(not just the Krag). No more balancing the bullet/boolit on the case mouth. Raise the case in the shell holder, drop the bullet in the window and seat. Best thing since sliced bread IMHO. You can swap out the guts to a different caliber but I've found complete dies on ebay cheaper than what you can buy the guts for. That and you get the added accuracy of inline seating.

[wallenba]

I know this won't fix your problem but, if you are looking for a seating die I'd suggest you try a Vickerman. http://vickermandies.com/html/products.html
You can seat all your 30 cal. cartridges with one die(not just the Krag). No more balancing the bullet/boolit on the case mouth. Raise the case in the shell holder, drop the bullet in the window and seat. Best thing since sliced bread IMHO. You can swap out the guts to a different caliber but I've found complete dies on ebay cheaper than what you can buy the guts for. That and you get the added accuracy of inline seating.

Very clever tool that one! I like it.

[Legion489]

Well I always contact the company first before posting that I had a problem, but that's me. If they refuse to fix the problem or just tell me I was stupid and bought Le... er, a lesser brand of reloading equipment and got what deserved (Yes, Richard L. did just that) then I figure I should buy a better brand of equipment.

I would be highly surprised if RCBS does not fix it or have a good reason why it is doing this. I would like to hear how this comes out. Of course any product can have a bad one slip by or any maker can turn out something that doesn't measure up (I have a wall of reloading gear and several guns that don't), it is what the company does when they do that matters to me. RCBS always did what is right. Some low end junk makers didn't.

[wallenba]

RCBS has always come through for me. No doubt they will here too. Once when my Pro-melt began dripping at a fearsome rate, I called to inquire how to deal with it. A week later I had a new pot liner and metering rod in the mail. No charge. The little mousetrap spring on my bench mounted priming tool broke. I could not make or find one that worked well. They sent a new one as well as a new handle cover. No charge.

[W.R.Buchanan]

So we're all good now?

Randy