simple Hi-Tek coating

[Avenger442]

Guys helping someone solve a problem they are having with the coated bullets is spot on and a good use of this thread.

I went back and did some checking on some notes I had made while getting ready to use the coating. The wheel weight (clip on weights only) with 2% tin alloy I have been using tested 13.4 BHN average with the Lee tester. I heat treated some (heated in oven 450 degrees then into tap water) and got 26.8 BHN average. When I coated them they lost most of the heat treating hardness. Dropped to 14.5. I decided that the 1 BHN wasn't worth the trouble of heat treating so I just started dropping them in water after the last coating of Hi-Tek. Those are running an average of 15 BHN. Like I said before, I have shot these with 1 1/2" groups 100 yards and no leading out of the .308 at near max load 43 grains of H4895 160 grain bullet gas checked three coats of Hi-Tek.

The wheel weight bullets with no tin that I shot out of the 308 were 117 grains gas checked 43-46 grains of H4895 best group I got out of those was 3" at 100 yards with the 45 grains. With no lead in barrel. The straight wheel weigh bullets have not had the hardness tested. They like the others were dropped in water after the 3rd coat.

One of the guys on this thread, memory gone, uses lino metal in 223. I'm going to test some 223s, if I can get all of my other projects done, that are 49% lino 49% wheel weights and 2% tin. BHN on them is 24.8 after three coats and water dropping after last coat. I'm with Kryogen, I don't like expensive alloys and would rather shoot the most thrifty (my wife says I'm cheap) alloy I can possibly shoot and it work.

I think I'll start dropping in water after they come out of the mold to see if I can gain BHN. That doesn't add a step before I load them like heat treating.

Note: the above listed BHNs and the above listed loads which came out of a loading manual and your results may differ.

[kryogen]

I will try dropping in water out of the mold and also after the last bake. We will see if that fixes it.
will also try some 357 vs 358 to compare. Now I just need to find some chore boy

[gunoil]

Dangit gunoil, you ain't helpin! LOL

I use WW cause I have em. Free source of lead, other than my time and resources to turn them into useable material. Being out of work recently and not quite yet of age to collect all those benefits that I have paid into for my entire adult life, I need to keep my spending to a minimum for a while, so free lead is a big attraction to me and I will work with the process until I have a workable solution for the various weapons that I load for (pistols and AR's) where cheap projectiles will really save me $$$ as we move forward.

I will be loading for 357 and 44mag, so pressures and velocities will be challenged a bit. The 45acp is pretty straightforward. 308win and the 300AAC will be two other challenges, the latter is simple, the former not so much.. I need to know at least what hardness I am working with when using AC or WQ boolits with success in those various platforms.

I realize that a hardness tester is not a solution to anything, but for me it is a way to quantify a value that I feel does have a lot of merit in the overall equation. I am just starting out.. still have a lot to learn by trial and error.. hopefully with research and the help of others here, not too much error...

We are same boat, l been doing for 4 years and yes l should get a tester too. I have had ww sucess but if one lil' mistake, lam back in a hole. Iam learning too, prob slower than you. l an having a blast with gas checks too. I have free ww's too.

[kryogen]

Oh, if you guys care, I have found a good deal for bottles for storing hi-tek.
I buy nail polish remover at the dollar store. it's 1$ for a 300 ml bottle that's acetone resistant and has a hermetic cap.
I discard the remover, rinse, let dry, tadam, 1$ for a hermetic 300ml bottle to store mixed hi-tek indefinitely without issues. Best deal I could find.

Disclaimer: NO, I AM NOT USING THE NAIL POLISH REMOVER TO MIX HI-TEK...... Kmon.

Something like that:

[HI-TEK]

Oh, if you guys care, I have found a good deal for bottles for storing hi-tek.
I buy nail polish remover at the dollar store. it's 1$ for a 300 ml bottle that's acetone resistant and has a hermetic cap.
Discard the remover, rinse, let dry, tadam, 1$ for a hermetic 300ml bottle to store acetone indefinitely without issues. Best deal I could find.

Something like that:

Great advice for storage container for Acetone.
Must ensure, that the original contents are not mixed up with your pure Acetone, and the bottle is clean washed out before storing pure Acetone in them.
Nail polish removers, generally contain Acetone, but also contain "oily" ingredients.
These "oily additives" will cause no end of problems with the coating.
I hope that this nail polish remover is not what was used to mix the powdered coating into.

[kryogen]

discard, rinse, let dry, then use it as a storage container... Of course.

[benellinut]

I will try to water drop and reduce powder load to starting load, and test again. Might work better.

I guess that I need a lee hardness tester, just sucks that I bought stuff from titan last week, should have bought this at the same time, shipping was 15$... Or ill get it from somewhere in canada to get it faster.

at this point I have tested everything and it still leads so it might be the alloy like you say.

If my alloy is too soft, what do i add? 2% tin?

what bhn is needed for 9mm at starting loads?

kryogen,

Hang in there, you'll get it. You can use the drawing pencil set to test your lead to find the hardness, it's easy, accurate and the cheapest way. The pencils are "Staedtler Mars Lumograph Design Pencils, set# 100G12" They come in different grades of hardness. --> http://www.amazon.com/Staedtler-Lumo...Design+Pencils You find the softest pencil that will shave a curl off the lead, compare that numbered pencil to a chart and that will tell you what lead you have. I just bought a set off ebay for $11.50 shipped, got them in a few days, the guy only has a few sets left here --> http://www.ebay.com/itm/400860766222

Here is a thread on the pencil test, http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...s-with-pencils On page 10, about half way down you'll find the chart. You'll want to save that, print it and tape it to the inside of the lid on the pencil box. When you sharpen the pencils sand the sharp point off so it's a flat blunt end, use the edge of the blunt end to shave lead off your samples, not a sharp point. I stole a couple of my wife sand paper type nail files and put them in the pencil box.

[kryogen]

I have found a few other points that might be giving me issues with my boolits.

First, my lee 120tc is 356 and boolits are out of round and vary in size from 356 to 358.
My glock 17 groove dia is .3558

My lee 357 sizer was sizing to 3564 to 3568 or so. I enlarged it so now it sizes 3570 to 3574

What that means is that I have some lead boolits that went right through the sizer, or with very minimal force and contact points. They were probably too small and leaded.

The 358-105-swc mold that i am expecting (in the mail somewhere now) might help. If the boolits drop 358-360, and then are uniformly sized to 357, that migh work better. A full thousand and a bit more over groove diameter, with uniformity.

I will also water drop out of mold and after 3rd coat of hitek.
then that should work i guess.

I have tested my new 3 coated projectiles and they dont seem to show any bare lead after the barrel slug test with a hammer. Will have to wait for that new mold, cast, coat, and test again.

That probably means that for the next 2 weeks, I will be shooting plated bullets and will have no update.

[benellinut]

Great advice for storage container for Acetone.
Must ensure, that the original contents are not mixed up with your pure Acetone, and the bottle is clean washed out before storing pure Acetone in them.
Nail polish removers, generally contain Acetone, but also contain "oily" ingredients.
These "oily additives" will cause no end of problems with the coating.
I hope that this nail polish remover is not what was used to mix the powdered coating into.

Yeah nail polish has other stuff in it. You can get it pure Acetone in WalMart, it's a larger can then that bottle but it probably will end up being about the same price per ounce. They have one brand in the auto section near the body repair stuff and another brand in the house paint dept which is the one I get. Here's a link http://www.walmart.com/search/?query...80&stores=1835

[Moonman]

benellinut,

Many here are in foreign countries,
kryogen I believe is in Quebec.
Wal-Mart is not everywhere.
He has not been able to purchase commercial
HI-TEK coated projectiles for testing in his Glock because of that also.

[HI-TEK]

benellinut,

Many here are in foreign countries,
kryogen I believe is in Quebec.
Wal-Mart is not everywhere.
He has not been able to purchase commercial
HI-TEK coated projectiles for testing in his Glock because of that also.

In most countries, where they make Fiberglass pools, tanks, or similar, should have MEK or Acetone in bulk, in 44 gallon drums.
MEK or Acetone can be interchanged for mixing with Powdered HI-TEK.
MEK is less user friendly, and dries a little slower.
Most reasonable hardware stores should have Acetone, but in a lot of cases, only in small packs, and can be expensive.
It is a case of looking around your specific area, to see if you can find an industry that would have the material in larger packs than 1 pint, or, half, or one litre cans.
Some Automotive paint suppliers, may have access to Acetone suppliers, and may be able to supply in 1 to 5 gallon lots.
Buyers must be aware, that solvents containing Acetone (with other solvents) may not be suitable.

In terms of commercial manufacture of cast projectiles in Canada, it would be useful to determine if there are any, that supply cast and supply with normal wax type lubes, who may be able to also supply straight cast alloys that would be suitable, without wax or lubes.
I am not aware of any commercial Canadian cast manufacturers.

[kryogen]

I am not aware of any commercial Canadian cast manufacturers.

I don't think that there are any.

As for the acetone, I get it at canadian tire or walmart in 1 litre metal containers.

I live in Quebec, which is a province (state) in canada.

The nail polish remover bottles are used as CONTAINERS after I have dumped and rinsed the nail polish remover. I like them because they are acetone resistant, plastic, clear, and have a nice size to shake the hi-tek.

[Ausglock]

have a look at the blue topped bottles in the background of this photo. they are 250ml juice bottles with poptops.
They are acetone safe and I use them for storing and dispensing the mixed coating.

[kryogen]

Ausglock is that a melter melting ingots over the main melter so you have a steady supply of liquid lead?

[Ausglock]

Yep. I turned the 10lb pot around and run the 2 pots with PID controllers mounted in an old UPS case.

[Moonman]

kryogen,

That's what Ausglock does, also note the 3 multi cavity molds that
he casts with, and notice that the molds sit on a steel bar that acts
as a heat sink to help cool the molds.

He casts very rapidly with the 3 and produces piles of projectiles.

[Ausglock]

Just home from the range.
Fired more of the Superhard Bronze 500 bullets through the Marlin 1894 44mag lever gun.
All I can say is "WOW..........."
The rifle was used with factory jacketed ammo only before I bought it. there was copper fouling in the bore.
But now after a couple of 100 rounds of the bronze bullets, the bore is spotless.
Somebody that casts and coats for rifles, needs to try this Bronze 500.
After all the coatings I have tested, this one impresses me the most.

[HI-TEK]

Just home from the range.
Fired more of the Superhard Bronze 500 bullets through the Marlin 1894 44mag lever gun.
All I can say is "WOW..........."
The rifle was used with factory jacketed ammo only before I bought it. there was copper fouling in the bore.
But now after a couple of 100 rounds of the bronze bullets, the bore is spotless.
Somebody that casts and coats for rifles, needs to try this Bronze 500.
After all the coatings I have tested, this one impresses me the most.

Thanks Ausglock.
It seems, that we are progressing in the right direction with coming up with the closest product to suit all applications.
The results you had with the Bronze 500, hopefully, may be able to be applied to the other colours, and, with some work to confirm.

It would have been great to have a speed, on the ammo being shot.
I wonder what would be speed rate with that rifle with your load?
What is bore diameter and size of your cast coated alloy?

By the sound of things, that Bronze, and possibly the other Bronzes, would be suitable in most hand guns as well.

[Ausglock]

Thanks Ausglock.
It seems, that we are progressing in the right direction with coming up with the closest product to suit all applications.
The results you had with the Bronze 500, hopefully, may be able to be applied to the other colours, and, with some work to confirm.

It would have been great to have a speed, on the ammo being shot.
I wonder what would be speed rate with that rifle with your load?
What is bore diameter and size of your cast coated alloy?

By the sound of things, that Bronze, and possibly the other Bronzes, would be suitable in most hand guns as well.

The bullets are cast from 2.6.92 alloy.
Lee 200gnRNFP 6 cav mold
sized .430
1 coat baked and sized .430
2 more coats applied and sized again at .430
I have not chronoed this load, but the ADI manual shows about the 1000fps area.
I will chrono next Sunday.

[ioon44]

HI-TEK the Bronze 500 sounds really great.

Do you think your product will ever develop to the point of just one coat?

I shot a steel challenge match and 3-gun side match yesterday with a Glock 22 .40cal running 140gr SWC boolits with Black liquid coating 5-1-8 mix and 3 coats, great accuracy and no leading after about 200 rounds.