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Thread: Hydrogen Peroxide & Vinegar to Remove Lead in Bores

  1. #1
    Boolit Buddy
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    Hydrogen Peroxide & Vinegar to Remove Lead in Bores

    After rendering 360 lbs of lead as discussed and pictured in a very recent thread, the cast iron pot was left with a thin layer of lead at the bottom that could not be removed with a sharp scraper or steel wool. Over the years I had run across many threads suggesting that a 50/50 solution of hydrogen peroxide and vinegar, common items in most households, would remove lead from firearm bores. I had researched the subject to some extent and found that the solution results in paracetic acid, a corrosive agent known to etch iron and steel in strong concentrations.

    But now the leaded pot was the ideal test sample for a lead cleaning test with the solution. I took it a step further as detailed below. So, after scraping the heavier layers of lead and crud out of the bottom of the pot, I scrubbed it with steel wool. A splotchy thin layer of lead remained, filling the pores and covering most of the bottom. Next I poured in a pint of 3% hydrogen peroxide and a pint of 5% acidic vinegar. Within a few minutes the solution started turning rust red. In about an hour approximately 75% of the lead was gone and the solution seemed to have stopped working. So I dumped out the old solution, wiped the residue out of the bottom of the pot and added a fresh solution of equal parts hydrogen peroxide and vinegar. As before, the solution started to turn rust red but within 15 minutes all the remaining lead was gone.

    Based on the results it was clear to me the paracetic acid was not only dissolving the lead but consuming the surface layer of the iron by turning it into iron oxide (rust), hence the deep rust red coloration of the solution. It was also clear that, based on the strength of the ingredients the acid only lasted so long as it was used up in the process of dissolving the lead and creating iron oxide. Since the solution was clearly etching the iron my next step was to figure out some way to quantify the rate of etching.

    So I cut off a hunk of clean #0 steel wool, put it in a glass jar and covered it with the solution. The wool was pressed down to remove most of the air and it settled to the bottom. The steel wool + solution immediately began to turn red and create bubbles/gas. After an hr the solution seemed to have stopped working. The steel wool was removed, cleaned under hot water and inspected. The strands were now much finer, closer to #0000 steel wool.

    At the same time the steel wool was immersed I grabbed a short piece of iron flat stock, buffed the surface with a wire wheel and stuck it in a glass jar, partially filling the jar with the solution. The solution slowly started to turn red. The photos below are the before and after results of the solution on the iron flat stock after 1 hr. Although the lighting is not the same for both photos and I could not feel the difference in the two surfaces by rubbing a finger over them, it’s clear the iron surface was etched.

    The bottom line is a solution of hydrogen peroxide and vinegar will never be used in my firearms to remove lead. Some contributors to the forum threads on the subject suggest is OK to use the solution for a few minutes, and other report allowing it to soak in the bore overnight. Based on my findings even short term repeated use will most definitely etch the bore to some degree.

    Wayne

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    NRA Life (Benefactor & President's Council) Member, TSRA Life Member, NSSF member, Author/Publisher of the Browning BPCR book.

  2. #2
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    Ok a different kind of question. On a steel surface, could this process be used to create a "patina" finish where bluing is worn off to patina? Could you "antique" a gun finish with it?
    Got a .22 .30 .32 .357 .38 .40 .41 .44 .45 .480 or .500 S&W cylinder that needs throats honed? 9mm, 10mm/40S&W, 45 ACP pistol barrel that won't "plunk" your handloads? 480 Ruger or 475 Linebaugh cylinder that needs the "step" reamed to 6° 30min chamfer? Click here to send me a PM You can also find me on Facebook Click Here.

  3. #3
    Boolit Master
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    An overnight soak in vinegar works on rusty tools to clean off the rust and leave a nice antique look. Don't know if I have the courage to try it on one of my guns.

  4. #4
    Boolit Master Dan Cash's Avatar
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    A few minutes soak in muratic acid will give degreased steel a gray/black parkerized look. Flushed well with scalding hot water, dried and oiled, the pickled finish will last for a long time.
    To paraphrase Ronald Reagan, the trouble with many shooting experts is not that they're ignorant; its just that they know so much that isn't so.

  5. #5
    Boolit Man

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    Interesting, the iron content in a solution seems to hit a saturation point and stops, similar to a closed loop hot water boiler system. the water in these systems becomes rusty, but only to a point, unless oxygen thru solution (water) or air is reintroduced.

    I am sure a chemist here could explain the finite points of the erosion. acid etching is a common practice for certain metal processes such as acid engraving, pickling and such.

    Bottom line, I guess, don't use acid on metal, unless you want it to disappear.

  6. #6
    Boolit Buddy duckey's Avatar
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    FYI...I have used it in a .40 bore Sig P229 and it worked great, with that said another member informed me that he has used it and it caused severe pitting in his bore...needless to say ill try something different next time.

  7. #7
    Boolit Grand Master bedbugbilly's Avatar
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    To each their own but if you value your blueing job on your firearm - vinegar should never be near it. I use vinegar to remove blueing when "antiquing" cap and ball revolvers. It makes quick work of it. I have disassembled the revolvers and soaked them in a plastic tupperware container overnight - the blueing will soon be gone and down to bare metal. I have never seen "etching" with it.

    As far as hydrogen peroxide - it is one of the ingredients in a commonly used black powder clean up solution. !/3 Murphy's Oil Soap, 1/3 Hydrogen Peroxide and 1/3 Denatured Alcohol. I've used it for years with no problems at all.

    Soooooo . . . I'm not chemist but . . . my experience is vinegar removes blueing down to the metal - no pitting or problems . . . the hydrogen peroxide in the long used BP cleaning solution causes no problems . . . is it the combination of the vinegar and hydrogen peroxide together that causes the problem?

  8. #8
    Boolit Master

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    Quote Originally Posted by bedbugbilly View Post
    As far as hydrogen peroxide - it is one of the ingredients in a commonly used black powder clean up solution. !/3 Murphy's Oil Soap, 1/3 Hydrogen Peroxide and 1/3 Denatured Alcohol. I've used it for years with no problems at all.

    Soooooo . . . I'm not chemist but . . . my experience is vinegar removes blueing down to the metal - no pitting or problems . . . the hydrogen peroxide in the long used BP cleaning solution causes no problems . . . is it the combination of the vinegar and hydrogen peroxide together that causes the problem?

    You are describing "Friendship Speed Juice" I've used it for years also. The oil soap prevents the undesired result I believe.

    SS
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    "The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good"-- George Washington

    II Corinthians 4:8-9. We are hard-pressed on every side, yet not crushed; we are perplexed, but not in despair; persecuted but not forsaken, struck down, but not destroyed."

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  9. #9
    Boolit Buddy
    John in PA's Avatar
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    Note that the Murphy's-peroxide-alcohol mix contains NO vinegar or other acids.so it wouldn't attack metal as vigorously as the peroxide/vinegar mix. But, though a atruly rapid cleaner, it degreases so thoroughly that bores will rust quite quickly unless dried and oiled immediately. I tried it for a while, but have decided to go the Tracklube/Froglube route. Cleanup is just as easy and there's nothing that can harm the bore or finish. In fact, when properly applied, it's completely protective. (I burn LOTS of black powder in N-SSA competition.)
    John Wells in PA

    Peabody's and Peabody-Martini's wanted
    Also shoot a 10-PDR Parrott Rifle in competition

  10. #10
    Boolit Grand Master bedbugbilly's Avatar
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    John in PA - I've used it for many, many years but as you say . . . I always oil immediately after as a normal part of my cleaning. I remember many years ago being at the Nationals in Winchester. Prior to leaving, I cleaned my rifled musket and oiled it well - a friend used my "joy juice" and I told him to oil the bore well as well as the outside. Unfortunately, he got in a hurry and didn't do it. He put his Enfield in a case and we locked it in the long tool box on our cannon trailer and headed back to Michigan. It was several days by the time we got back to Michigan (had to make the mandatory stop in Gettysburg). When he got home, he called me and said his rifle now had a nice growing to it . . . inside and out. I reminded him that HE was the one who cut corners and didn't oil it . . fortunately it cleaned up O.K. His Enfield needed a little "character" anyway . . .

  11. #11
    Boolit Buddy
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    I wonder if you could use it with a steam cabinet on the outside of a barrel as a browning or rust blueing solution???
    John Wells in PA

    Peabody's and Peabody-Martini's wanted
    Also shoot a 10-PDR Parrott Rifle in competition

  12. #12
    Boolit Buddy
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    Quote Originally Posted by bedbugbilly View Post
    . . . is it the combination of the vinegar and hydrogen peroxide together that causes the problem?
    Yes, as noted in the opening post, mixing the two results in the creation of paracetic acid, a strong metal oxidizer. You can read more about it here:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peracetic_acid

    Wayne
    NRA Life (Benefactor & President's Council) Member, TSRA Life Member, NSSF member, Author/Publisher of the Browning BPCR book.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check