wad making...

[mannyCA]

anyone find an alternative to those plastic shotgun wads? Could you use cork or something similar to bring the shot column up? I understand the need for the petals in keeping shot fairly accurate in guiding but was curious. Specifically I'm looking to load for a 20 gauge. Trying to see if maybe I'm overlooking something which can be a cost saver.
I use an overshot card cut from milk jugs for the 410 any they work fine.

[Rio Grande]

What did folks do before those plastic wads?

Like this....

http://www.circlefly.com/html/products.html

[I'll Make Mine]

Get or make a hollow punch the correct size and find suitable material (fiber insulation board looks as if it should make good cushion wads) and you can make all the wads you want -- but you can buy "fiber wads" and "nitro card wads" that can be used to assemble shotshells the old fashioned way (link above).

One thing to watch, from what I've seen/read, the wad size you need may not match the gauge of the shell you're reloading; for instance, you apparently want 11 ga. wads for a 12 ga hull.

[Reg]

The nitro and filler wads from circle fly (above) are exactly what was used years ago both the nitro and filler wads.
Generally, you bought 12 ga. wads for 12 ga. paper shells, 20 ga. wads for 20 ga. shells and so on but if you were loading 12 ga. brass shot shells then you had to step up one ga. in diameter and us 11 ga. wads for 12 ga. shells, etc. This was because the brass shells were much thinner in the side wall and the regular wads simply would not seal in the shell.
Some of the new and thinner plastic shells may also require this as well.
A few people back then did make their own wads cutting the nitro wads from thick cardboard stock and using non treated cello tex for the filler wads. The treated cello tex was coated with a tar like stuff that made cutting wads a sticky mess and turned your bore into about the same. You could spot this treated stuff by its black appearance while un treated was a light to medium brown in color and didn't rub off on your hands.
After cutting the filler wads, if you wanted to treat them with anything you could dip them in hot parrifine. It was kind of messy but many felt it added a lubrication to the wads and left a cleaner bore. As I recall, the parrifine was used with a double boiler and had to be kept as hot as possible and the wads were very quickly dipped and not allowed to really soak up much of the parrifine. I could see where this not being very carefully done could be a source of a real nasty flash fire.
Just like anything else, if you want to save a few bux you could easily make your own wads and I bet they would work just fine.

[UNIQUEDOT]

Cork is one of the best (if not the very best) shot cushions you can use. I use a lot of cork that i cut myself and you can get it from wal-mart or any office supply store in the form of cork tiles. If you buy new wads you might want to check with the manufacturer or others whom have used them in the brand name you intend to purchase to get the correct fit.

The internal diameter of an 12 ga shotshell hull is actually 13 ga. instead of 12 ga. I used to use a lot of 13 ga wads to load them, but this is only true if the wads are cut to true shotgun bore (muzzleloader) diameters. Today even modern muzzleloaders that are stamped 12 ga. are actually 13 ga. guns. This was done so that people could use modern 12 ga. wads in them.

All of the precut wads being made today may be cut for modern guns. I don't know because i have not used them in years since I've been cutting my own, but when i did purchase them i would have to keep on hand 13, 12, 11, and 10 ga. wads just to be able to load for the 10 and 12 ga.

[mannyCA]

So the shot cup is not necessary for loading, just an adequate wad? How does this affect accuracy on game?

[35remington]

If you make your own wads, and do not value your time at all you may save money cutting your own wads.......eventually. That is, if you make enough to help offset the cost of the wad punch.

If you buy fiber and cork and card wads, the cost of the various wads needed in combination to make a workable load (overpowder, cushion, and possibly overshot) will exceed the cost of the single plastic wad you can buy, especially from the lower cost suppliers like Claybuster and Downrange purchased in lots of 1000 to 5000 at a time.

Usually the shot cup is considered a benefit to eliminate bore scrubbing to some degree, and patterns are said to improve on average with its use. Not in every case, surely, but that may be the way to bet.

[UNIQUEDOT]

So the shot cup is not necessary for loading, just an adequate wad? How does this affect accuracy on game?

No it isn't needed, but you will have to experiment with various powders and wad column combinations to find your perfect load. It's a lot quicker (usually) to find that perfect load with modern wads and especially so if your gun is a newer gun and by newer gun i mean one from the shotcup era.

Older guns had tighter chokes than modern guns (more bore tapering) and that's the reason an older full choke gun might throw an extra full or even super full pattern with modern ammunition. They were designed around traditional wad columns and with the invention of modern shotcup wads bores became more relaxed.

You can experiment with traditional wads and get superb patterns out to 55 yards in the 12 ga, but you always must make sure you have a good powder seal, shot cushion, and consistently tight crimp.

[Shooter]

Shot cups can be made by cutting thin cardboard in a rectangle to sit on the wad wraping the shot. or a cross to sit on top of the wad with the four arms surounding the shot column.
I have tryed both in ML and don't see one superior to the other. They do tighten patterns.

[smoked turkey]

what I have noticed in my 12 ga blackpowder muzzleloader, is that it is extremely important to pattern your individual gun. It sounds strange I know, but my particular shotgun shoots a better pattern with the modified choke when compared to the full. Notice I said better not smaller. I get a more dense pattern, hence in my case a better pattern with the more open choke. This seems to be the case whether I use a wad column or not.

[qwiksting]

I just started reloading 12 g, and had the same question about the shot column. Powder first, then(2) 1/2" fiber wad then (9) 00 buckshot. 29grs of hs6. I have 12s4 wads i have used as well, 29grs of hs6, then a small piece of fiber wad, then 12s4 wad with 8 or 9 00 buck. On a couple I also placed a clear overshot card on top of the 00 shot, fold crimped. Maybe someone will see this combo and give me some tips...is it safe to shoot? 8 instead of 9 00buck with 29 grs of hs6. Hogdon calls for 38 grs hs6 using the 12s4. Any thoughts?

[SuperBlazingSabots]

Hello QwikSting, May I suggest :
1. Powder charge.
2. .125-12 gauge nitro card.
3. 1/2 fiber wad.
4. .125-12 nitro card.
5 1/2 nitro card.
6. OO Buck shot in shot cup or 12S-4 if you have room in the hull. ( I really do not know what size hull you are using )
7. Fold crimp!

If possiable cut the OP part of 12S-4 and put it on top of the powder for load efficiency, than go to step 3, 4 , 5 etc!!!!
Use just the shot cup of the wad. Since I wish I could load the shells and show you with pictures but do not have access to my loading room due to Production run of Blazing Sabots!

Its time for a Party, go have fun and take along a lot of water filled plastic milk bottles!
Post some nice pictures of bottles exploding from your OO Buck loads!

" No man is a failure, who is enjoying life" - William Feather

" A happy man is one who loads his own slugs and burn's powder at the range" - Blazing Sabots!

Time to start cooking your own, home cooked meal ( Sabot slug )

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[John in WI]

The other thing that is recommended by some folks (especially BPI) is the use of Teflon "wraps". You use whatever gas seal/cushion you are going to use, and then wrap the inside of the hull with a Teflon sleeve prior to filling with buckshot. The idea is exactly the same as using an actual shot cup--it provides a barrier between steel and lead when you launch the pellets. I've never used them, but it's supposed to be nice in that the Teflon is a good bit thinner than a shot cup so you can potenially fit pellets in that would otherwise dimple the hull.

Although I've been running a lot of Wolf 9 pellet buck (which has just a fiber spacer and no shot cup) and it patterns pretty well.

[shotman4]

the teflon was what winchester used in the first plactic shells . the MarkV
If you are looking for something to make thin wads the drink coasters that is used in bars. work good for over shot or a build ing block

[Garyshome]

$15.00 [+time] for a 3/4" punch at the HW store. BPI overshot cards are $8/500+ ship. Might have to go get the punch, should be able to cut 2 layers at a time maybe 3.

[Geezer in NH]

Need for a real loading manual. Use it