Load for Garand

[GypsmJim]

I've been using cast bullets for many years in 6 or 8 different rifle loads. Most have been bolt action rifles, but I've also had good success with 7.62x39 in AKs and SKSs. For my Garand I have always used a 150 Hornady FMJ over 44 grains of IMR3031. My bullet inventory is getting kinda low, and I thought why not try a gas checked lead bullet. Naturally I don't want to lead the barrel or damage the Op rod.

I have a choice of a 150 grain LFP, or a 155 grain SP. The latter is designed for 7.62x39. Both are from Lee molds. Many years ago I tried the 150 with 44 gr. of 3031 in an 03A3, but was not happy with the results. They fired OK with good accuracy, but I had trouble chambering them in my particular rifle, so I gave that idea up.

So, my question is....would either bullet be satisfactory, would one be preferred and what would be a good staring point load with 3031.

TIA for any help. This is my first post. I frequent the S&W form often and have heard good things about this place.

[Scharfschuetze]

Welcome aboard GypsmJim!

I can't help you with your choice of boolits as I shoot a heavier boolit that I think help with the accuracy at 300 yards and further.

That said, I have good accuracy and functionality in my M1 Garands with Lyman's 311332 or 311334 boolits (193 grains-Linotype) sized to .310" and gas checked. I usually end up using about 36 grains of IMR 4895 for best results, but your rifles may vary to some extent. I load to an overall length of 3.305." Velocity is 1,990 fps.

I might add that I get no leading in the power chamber or on the gas piston face and no leading in the bore using the old NRA 50/50 lube with my load and I can shoot it all day with accuracy the equivalent of M2 Ball ammo.

[DeadWoodDan]

I'm going to jump in here and add my 2cents ( that's about all its really worth ). I've been reading as much as possible on the Garand topic and know from experience it gets brought up every other week; just go back a page or two. First suggestion is to use the "advance search" option in the upper right hand corner. You will find yourself reading for hrs and days. Look and find "BobS Load" very good right up that many use ( I will once I get going ).

From my recent studying we need a heavier boolit around 200gr for the Garand and Slower powders ( nothing slower than 4064, 4895 being the most popular. Do a search for powder burn rate and that will give you an idea of powders, not many.

So back to boolits we can look at the most popular:
LEE C309-200-R
311299
311284 ( BobS Load )
312290
311365

These can be had in there "big brother" variations with 312/314 designations also. this is where I'm at in the dilemma, we should do a cast of our chamber and find out what size to go with. I have the LEE mold on hand so next casting session available I'm starting with it for fun as I just found 4895 powder close by in 8# jugs.

You can go to the Swappin and Sell'n section here and at the top is a WTB. You can post wanting a small sample of each or one particular, many members have helped me in the past.

Good luck

[BruceB]

The "BobS load" uses H4831 powder..... FAR slower than 4064 or 4895.

The slow powders work very well with CAST bullets in the Garand.... but NOT with jacketed bullets.

[DeadWoodDan]

Well that doubles the size of powders available, guess I didn't pay close enough attention or my notes were wrong. I know over the last few days of reading on this topic there are many threads discussing it.

[GypsmJim]

I've read many of the posts I retreived by searching. I guess i'm being very specific here and can't find what I'm looking for. I don't intend to buy another mold or switch powder.

So, with Lee 150-155 grain #2 alloy bullets, would a flat point be better or worse than a "Pointier" profile as far as function and cycling? And, what would be a good starting load with 3031.

The new Lyman cast handbook list a load for my very combination, but the spread is quite broad.

[Scharfschuetze]

I hope that works out for you GypsmJim. Your specific goal is on the light side for the M1. With the M1 Garand, it's all about port pressure for reliable operation and with the gas port all the way down the barrel near the muzzle, powders useful for cast boolits tend to be slower than 3031. Cast boolits start off challenged for the M1 so heavy boolits and a medium to slow powder have proven the best option more often than not.

In the end, it'll depend on your rifle's bore, gas port wear, gas cylinder wear, gas piston wear, lubrication and op rod spring strength. With my heavy boolits (apx. 200 grains with gas check and lube) 1,950 seems to be the magic velocity for complete reliability, so I'd certainly set a goal of 2,000 fps for your lighter 150 grain boolit and see how that works. That should be no problem with 3031 with about 33 or 34 grains. Let us know how it works out.

[GypsmJim]

Thanks for a good starting point. I currently load Hornady 150 FMJBT at ~2600 and they work exceptionally well.

[Motor]

What about the 160gr Lee 2R? This typically drops around 168 with gas check with my alloy.

Motor

[nighthunter]

I'm using NOE 311365. I have been powder coating and gas checking. Mine weigh in at 195 grains when ready to load. I shoot them with 36.0 grains IMR-4895. Has proven to be very accurate and never a problem with function. I've used a lot of different lighter weight cast bullets but have not had the degree of success that I have found with this combination.

Nighthunter

[DanOH]

Is it mandatory to use a filler (dacron) with those loads....w/4895...?

[WineMan]

If your M1 is already set up for its best accuracy: tight Gas Cylinder on the barrel; good trigger group lock up, properly lubed etc, it should shoot cast fine. All of the loads mentioned should cycle the action. Even powders slower than 4895 work as you don't use enough to worry about the op-rod bending. My experience is probably like many, solid fundamentals, a good understanding, and willingness to learn. I found the load that functions the M1, has a velocity close to the limits of practical accuracy of cast bullets at about 1,800 fps. Certainly cast bullets can be driven faster with accuracy. I think it takes more time and effort to get there and the M1 may not be the best rifle for this avenue.

Dave

[Larry Gibson]

Is it mandatory to use a filler (dacron) with those loads....w/4895...?

Not "mandatory" but considering any useable 4895 loads will be around 50% load density the dacron filler will enhance ignition consistency and more than likely result in better accuracy.

Larry Gibson

[Le Loup Solitaire]

+1 on Scharfschutze's recommendations. I use 311291 sometimes, but nothing lighter than 170 grains. 311284 and Saeco 301 also work well for me with 4895 and 3031. I wouldn't recommend trying duplex loads as there are powders around that do a good job without any risk of any kind. I agree that velocity of 1800-1950 is about the best working speed for cast. LLS

[Rich/WIS]

I load the RCBS 308-165 SIL in front of 36 gr of IMR 4046. Good accuracy and reliable function. In my alloy and gas checked they weigh in abpout 172-173 grains. I use the NRA 50/50 mix and have no leading issues, but do find a few very tiny flecks of lead in the gas port. Accuracy is about as good as I can do with ball ammo, but POI is lower and to the right.

[GypsmJim]

There are some whom will advocate a "duplex" load. It's your rifle, but I would NOT fire a duplex in the M1 Garand, port pressure, errosion, and heat will be a factor on the op rod as well as the gas piston silver soldered on the OP Rod. While the Garand is a Battle rifle and not delicate, One need to remember it is designed for a specfic pressure and heat range in the gas system. Hence is why I advocate the steadfast rule No slower than IMR 4064.

What Scharfschuetze recommends is a great load for that old war horse as a rule.

while I would not shoot a slower powder than IMR4064, some have without issues. I will not argue it I am merely stating my opinion and experiance. Like I said your rifle. But, I would never shoot one with a powder slower than what I have recommended.

Now that's interesting! I've been loading and casting for 40+ years and I never even HEARD of a duplex load. That seems to be just wrong.....LOL. You learn something every day. I guarantee I won't try one of those....

[1johnlb]

The Lee 155 312 works well in my garand with 34grs of 4064. Cycles the action with reasonable accuracy.

[358wcf]

Reasonable accuracy with complete authority- each and every time!
358wcf

[Adam Helmer]

Guys,

Today I took my Chrony out into the backyard and ran Garand #3 with the Lee 185 RN cast boolit and 36 grains of IMR 4895. The velocity was about 2,000 fps. Function was 100% and the groups were on point of aim with the 150 grain jacketed bullets.

Adam