Hard Boolits for the 40 smith and wesson

[Hankster1962]

I have casted and quenched several hundred Lee 175 grain boolits for my 40 S & W. After quenching boolits were somewhere around the 14 BHN. I heat treated them and again quenched them in ice cold water. The BHN was still somewhere around 14 BHN. After two days, they hardened up to 22 BHN. This is using scrap lead, and I am not sure what the exact composition is, and I was using a Saeco lead hardness tester, so I had to convert the Saeco hardness to BHN using their chart.
I remember reading an article from Mike Venturino several years ago. In that article he was saying to use hard cast bullets in the 40 if you want any sort of accuracy.
I cannot locate that article any longer. My question, is 22 BHN hard enough? I will lube these bullets using my own boolit lube consisting of a mixture of Lee liquid alox, beeswax, lithium grease, and lanolin. More than likely I will loading it with about 4 grains of Bullseye.
Again, I am questioning if the hardness is enough. Thanks boys

[chsparkman]

I use range lead for my .40 also, but I don't water drop or otherwise harden them. I size to .401 and load them over 4 gr of Bullseye. It works well for me and accuracy is good.

[Wayne Smith]

If Mike wrote that it must have been some of his earlier work. He now knows that very hard boolits are not necessary for the 40 S&W. You can shoot those as they are if they fit, and softer too if they fit. If you have leading is likely fit, not hardness, that is causing your problem.

[fredj338]

I have casted and quenched several hundred Lee 175 grain boolits for my 40 S & W. After quenching boolits were somewhere around the 14 BHN. I heat treated them and again quenched them in ice cold water. The BHN was still somewhere around 14 BHN. After two days, they hardened up to 22 BHN. This is using scrap lead, and I am not sure what the exact composition is, and I was using a Saeco lead hardness tester, so I had to convert the Saeco hardness to BHN using their chart.
I remember reading an article from Mike Venturino several years ago. In that article he was saying to use hard cast bullets in the 40 if you want any sort of accuracy.
I cannot locate that article any longer. My question, is 22 BHN hard enough? I will lube these bullets using my own boolit lube consisting of a mixture of Lee liquid alox, beeswax, lithium grease, and lanolin. More than likely I will loading it with about 4 grains of Bullseye.
Again, I am questioning if the hardness is enough. Thanks boys

Well not to say Mike is full of BS, but it depends. I am using ww equiv alloy or a bit softer for 40 minor loads in my xdm (176gr @ 740fps). I can shoot 1" groups @ 50ft, seems accurate enough. As pressures go up, the bullet will likely need to be harder but as noted, fit is always king.

[lightman]

I use coww in my 40. They shoot well enough and there is little or no leading.

[Roundgunner]

I water drop the 175 lee tl mold with range recovery lead and do not get any leading.

[Budzilla 19]

I water-dropped 175 grain Lee tl .40's cast from coww with 2% tin, sized to .401, Hi-Tek bullet coating, ZERO leading at any velocity !!! Will knock down plates at 25 yards with authority! Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to all!! Cast on.

[duckey]

Well when I decided to reload I also thought I might as well cast my own as well. I started casting and reloading .40 S&W and used lead from Wheel weights, fishing sinkers etc. Never tested the hardness, sized or lubed them (I was taking advice form a friend that reloaded...I learned real quick to smile and nod when he gave future advice). My first 50 rounds leaded my barrel HORRIBLY! So I made a lube using beeswax, olive oil, and lard and pan lubed em. It worked...no more leading and great accuracy! Just messy as heck. I finally found Lee Allox and cut out the mess and time of pan lubing. Again no more leading and great accuracy. I have since bought a Lee sizer but have not used it yet. I have also got my hands on about 33 lbs or range scrap, haven't shot any .40's cast from the range scrap but it is a harder lead. I haven't really worried to much about the hardness but a lead hardness tester is on the shopping list.

[Lloyd Smale]

well I fly against the grain here. Ive shot ALOT of cast bullet through .40s .10s 45acps 9mms ect and just about to the gun they all shot better the harder the bullet I used. Maybe not so with revolvers but even true with them more times then not. Most semi auto pistols have very shallow rifleing and it allows softer bullets to "strip" through the rifling and also just the act of feeding into the chamber in some guns damages softer bullets. Ive seen guns that shoot just as well with softer alloys but don't recall EVER having a gun that shot better with soft. Now keep in mind I don't have a bunch of old colt sixguns or old smith da guns that have mismatched parts or out of spec clearances. Sometimes in that kind of gun the softer alloy will prevail. Is a hard bullet a necessity in the 40? Heck no, anything will allow it to go bang but if Im looking for the best possible accuracy I usually start with a bullet at least 14bhn and prefer more like 18 and am not beyond even casting them out of straight linotype.

[Hankster1962]

Thank you Lloyd Smale. I am in the same boat as yourself. Been reloading and casting for about 30 years, for just about any caliber you can think of, 9mm, 40, 45 acp and colt, 38/357, 9mm mak, 32 acp, 380 and a whole slew of rifle calibers. I have also been loading 12 gauge for years. I have competed in IPSC, PPC and bullseye for as long as I have been reloading.
Especially for the 40 cal, I have read that harder bullets (around 22 BHN) to be more accurate because of the shallow rifling. You are correct, everything goes bang, but that is not good enough in bullseye. Going back and hitting the middle is what counts, as long as I do my part. I made a batch of bullets that I heat treated and are now 22BHN. With jacketed stuff, its right on the money, with a softer cast, I group four to six inches. That's using three different pistols. I will bench a box I made up using Bullseye, Titegroup and Unique and will post my result. Thanks everyone for your replies. Keep them coming, its great to hear about other experiences.

[OuchHot!]

The only 40SnW shooting I do is with a Glock polygonal bore. It definitely works better with harder bullets. I have not seen leading issues but accuracy definitely improves with harder alloy. Not interested in starting the don't shoot lead in glocks thread. My 45acp's generally wanted harder alloys. I put a kart barrel in one and then another 1911 and they shoot fine with surprisingly soft bullets. I haven't slugged them to find out if the rifling is deeper or what. I don't generally run into leading issues with the 45 either with hard or soft alloys.

[Hankster1962]

Well, say what you want, its exactly what I read in Mike's (Venturino) article. I went to the Gun Club today and tried my newly reloaded heat treated bullets today, using two 40 cal pistols. (P226 and Ruger P94) I loaded rounds using 4.5 grns Bullseye, 5.4 grns Titegroup and 5.5 grns of Unique. I also shot untreated cast bullets using 3.5 and 4.5 grns of Bullseye. The smallest heat treated bullets grouped 1 inch to 2. The untreated cast grouped 3 to 4 inches. The best load was 4.5 grains of Bullseye for both pistols, the second best for the P226 was the Unique, and Titegroup for the Ruger. Shots were taken from a rest at 25 yards. Velocities were from 800 to about 911 fps. BHN for my heat treated bullets was 22, and 14 for the non heat treated.
Mike's article was dead on the money. From now on it strictly heat treated bullets for my 40's. My 45 acp's, 9mm's, 32 acp, 380 acp and 7.62 x 25 work great with non heat treated bullets, go figure. This was a great experience. Thank guys for your replies.

[lwknight]

Just mix some 2-6-92 hardball and be done with it. Heat treating random alloys will end up with hardness all over the scale. The term hardcast means 15-16 brinnel scale. A short case like the 40 or even the longer 10mm will never benefit from anything harder because the pressures are limited.
If it were a rifle with more capacity , it would be another story.


Hardcast for a .380! Seriously? Pure lead would be hard enough.

[RJH]

I use water quenched hospital lead or ww in everything, and my .40 loads work great. I shot about 12,000 of them out of a stock glock barrel at about 1000fps and never had an issue with accuracy or leading.