for you machinists

[garandsrus]

JSnover,

Can you elaborate on how this is done: "The way to set the machine up flat is to 'box the ways' with your precision level"?

Thanks,
John

[JSnover]

Sure, it's simple enough but you'll need a precision level and probably a ground parallel so you can work from the flats. A pair of spacer blocks would work but make sure they're in good shape and ground to the same size.
Put the level across the ways at the headstock end and take a close look. Now put it at the tailstock end and compare. If the two ends are not indicating the same, your ways are twisted. Use the leveling bolts to match them up.
Now put the level lengthwise on each of the ways (one at a time) and repeat the process. It may take a lot of patience and finesse to get both ways to read the same but when you are finished the machine should be flat and level. If you end up with a slight tilt that can't be fixed, just make sure it is the same amount from end-to-end or side-to-side.
As you face the machine from the normal operating position, if you have a slight tilt, you'd rather have it leaning toward you or away from you, sort of rotating it on the headstock axis. Let the machine set over night and check it again.
I'd recommend not lagging it to the floor, since it is almost guaranteed to shift or twist when you tighten the bolts, ruining all of your efforts at leveling. My 16" LeBlond and 12" Monarch, along with three milling machines (Bridgeport, Cincinnatti and Milwaukee) have been operating in my shop for 30 to 50 years and none of them is bolted down. We also used to have a gigantic Morris Mor-Speed radial drill and a Gallmeyer & Livingston 55 surface grinder, neither of which was ever bolted down. Good machines are HEAVY. If you're able to shake one loose or tip it over you're doing something REALLY wrong.
I also don't believe any of the mills have been leveled since the day they were installed. In their case, tramming the head to the table is a lot more important.
As someone else said, check it a month or so later to see how it's settling in.

[garandsrus]

JSnover,

Thank you... After leveling the headstock, I assume that all further adjustments (when possible) are done at the tailstock.

John

[Buckshot]

JSnover,

Thank you... After leveling the headstock, I assume that all further adjustments (when possible) are done at the tailstock.

John

................"Leveling the lathe" (or any other machine) is to make it true to itself. Lathes aboard ships afloat were mentioned and it's a good point. You could anchor a lathe sideways to a wall and if the bed was level to itself you would do good work on it, same as if it was on the floor. The term 'level' is itself kind of confusing or misleading.

My lathe is in my garage. The concrete floor slopes toward the large door. The headstock is in that direction and I didn't want lube and junk flowing toward the headstock, so it's biased back the other direction. Since the lathe is on a cabinet, the gross adjustment was done via the 6 adjustable rubber feet with which it's equipped.

The lathe sits on 2 heavy steel plates attached to the top of the cabinet and each takes 4 bolts. Of these 4 bolts at each end, 2 of them opposing each other are very finely adjustable. The mechanism isn't important, but getting both ends of the bed on the same plane is.

You will need a level accurate to .0005" /ft. Oddly enough these are usually 10" long . You can get one from ENCO and others, I'm sure for quite a bit less then $100.

Just do a search on the web for "Leveling a lathe".

..............Buckshot

[georgeld]

You experts with the fancy levels, I've got a question as I've never used one.
Did see them in the machine shop in the 60's, but, I never looked 'em over.

I have found that a good quality angle finder beats all the levels Iv'e ever
used though. Have a buddy in Pa. that's a cabinet maker of quite afew yrs.
He was telling how he gets a good job with levels. So I sent him an angle finder
and it changed his mind on how good a job he'd been doing.
Said he'd taken it to several installs and rechecked his work and found it wasn't
anythng to be proud of once he got the "real reading".

Have you compared your fancy levels to one of these fine grade of angle finders?
That's all I'm asking, don't want to create anything. Just want to open afew minds
a little bit is all. There's many different "level readings". Personally I can't read a
bubble near as accurately as I can a needle on a marked dial, but, that's me. You
might be able to see and judge them better than I can.

[georgeld]

pat:
Just read the last page again.
Don't think there's any pictures of the old table saw. Brought a "date" home just before
Christmas and she stole my camera so I can't take any now either.

This is direct drive from the motor shaft about 1 1/2" dia. Motor is flat on top and bottom,
about 14" long, 8-10" thick and possibly a foot wide and I'll bet it's not any less than
150lbs. Tell you what, when I was healthy and stout it was plumb damned heavy then.
I wouldn't attempt it now.

Table tilts in the ways, since the screw boss is broken off there's no controlling it when it's
tilted. Anything on the table will be dumped. It does have fresh babbit ways. Can't say
a thing about the motor as I don't have 3ph and no way to test it that I know of.

The two things I know it does need is the table needs to be sanded down from the
paint I've sprayed on it to protect it. and that boss needs to be either welded, or
braised back on. Otherwise I think it's usable the way it sets.

Where are you? I'm in Pueblo CO. A p/up can be backed right up to it.
I'd a lot rather swap it for a decent power feed lathe than sell it.
Don't need anything like that old LeBlond though I'd love to have that one.
That's the way this saw is built too. Hundreds of pounds of cast iron.

There's a housing with a bolt on cover plate under the table and over the blade.
With a chute to guide the cuttings below to one side.

Just went out and got some info off the lable on the pedistol.
J-A-Fay & Egan CO.
Cinncinati, OH Est 1830
Mfg's of Fine Woodworking Machinery

The table slots are dove tailed about 1 1/4" wide I'd guess. I do have the fence and
should have the miter head/blade too. The fence must be 50lbs itself. Nothing light
duty at all about it anywhere. It's a real antique really. But, I'd make a deal on it
to someone that would put it to good use and not just get it to resell for a big profit.
I could do that here.

Back to the LeBlond lathe. The pictures didn't come up the other night, just the red x's and blank boxes/pages. They're on tonight. That's a dandy. I've run 'em similar in the 60's. You've got a real honey of a lathe. I'd kick some ass for that red tool box being on the ways though. Get solvent to clean it with, diesel, or kerosene won't dissolve that old dried cutting oil very well. Solvent should. That's a machine that merits a good tear down and proper rebuild, with a good original type/color paint job. Then you can be very proud of it.

We're still anxious to hear what it cost you.

[Rayber]

I never ever expected this kind of response from a simple post. You guys are to much, almost over whelming. I didn't know there were some many people who felt as I do about old machines. I felt something when I saw this beast. I can make my next contact today at 1700 (5PM) EST. If nothing has changed, this old beast is mine for $250.00. (It's worth more for scrap iron.) I needed it to get a few jobs done, but now there's more. I have to salvage this work house. I may not be able to shot powder the spooks red but I can put a good coat of Red machine paint on them.(Buckshot) My wife instantly saw me rebuilding this old machine. It's more deserving then a car or car engine.

There's so much knowledge, advice and feelings in the last bunch of posts I'm going to print them out and let them soak. Let me tell you as I said in the first post, I have not used a lathe but a few times and that was years ago...many years.. 44 if I count right. I did a few jobs that went well but I remember forgetting how to disable the auto feed and almost ran the cutting tool into the chuck. I was a dumb kid then. I do have a project to complete. I guess I'd better take the time to explain. I read an article about a wildcat cartridge in 1963 in Guns and Ammo Magazine about the 38-45. I thought to myself. I'm going to do this. Clarke made a few barrels and an article was written in 1967. I acquired the SIZING DIES in 1975. The project died because of multiple transfers and no money.( Navy enlisted ) A year or so ago my son asked about getting the reloading gear out to make him some 270 rounds that wouldn't cost so much to shoot. I found my old 38-45 project. I now have the dies, a barrel and a reamer. I have 50 rounds of brass formed , bullets and loading data. All I have to do is drill the .256-9mm barrel out and and use my reamer and I finished. I tried this by hand and almost ruined my barrel. I needed a lath to get the barrel completed and here we are with me and a new life project saving this old monster. I also need a lath to drill and ream the 357 sig loading dies to my wildcat. I need to turn out a few more tools for reloading.
All I want is to make this thing (project) go boom a few times. I think the 357 sig will perform as well. It 's the principle of the thing.

Now I have to deal with this heart breaker of a machine and you guys who speak as you know this beast already. IF ...IF nothing has happened to it. I'll pick it up this Saturday and you will have to deal with it and me for the next year or so.

Buckshot...You may be doomed with questions...as all of you may be.

Just so you know a part of who I am. I am a retired Navy Hospital Corpsman (yea, 2 tours to Nam) I am now a Registered Nurse (ER) and a Paramedic (Volunteer). Now figure out how I got to here......
Ray

WOW....can you blab this much in a forum.............

[Flinchrock]

Sure, it's simple enough but you'll need a precision level and probably a ground parallel so you can work from the flats. A pair of spacer blocks would work but make sure they're in good shape and ground to the same size.
Put the level across the ways at the headstock end and take a close look. Now put it at the tailstock end and compare. If the two ends are not indicating the same, your ways are twisted. Use the leveling bolts to match them up.
Now put the level lengthwise on each of the ways (one at a time) and repeat the process. It may take a lot of patience and finesse to get both ways to read the same but when you are finished the machine should be flat and level. If you end up with a slight tilt that can't be fixed, just make sure it is the same amount from end-to-end or side-to-side.
As you face the machine from the normal operating position, if you have a slight tilt, you'd rather have it leaning toward you or away from you, sort of rotating it on the headstock axis. Let the machine set over night and check it again.
I'd recommend not lagging it to the floor, since it is almost guaranteed to shift or twist when you tighten the bolts, ruining all of your efforts at leveling. My 16" LeBlond and 12" Monarch, along with three milling machines (Bridgeport, Cincinnatti and Milwaukee) have been operating in my shop for 30 to 50 years and none of them is bolted down. We also used to have a gigantic Morris Mor-Speed radial drill and a Gallmeyer & Livingston 55 surface grinder, neither of which was ever bolted down. Good machines are HEAVY. If you're able to shake one loose or tip it over you're doing something REALLY wrong.
I also don't believe any of the mills have been leveled since the day they were installed. In their case, tramming the head to the table is a lot more important.
As someone else said, check it a month or so later to see how it's settling in.

You are exactly correct!!! My terminology should have been "flat to itself".
My 15"x6' South Bend was shipped to Milluwakee Valve on 3/25/1929, I can usually hold .0015 in 30" (with a follower) on 12l14.

[Buckshot]

I never ever expected this kind of response from a simple post. You guys are to much, almost over whelming. I didn't know there were some many people who felt as I do about old machines.

Ray

WOW....can you blab this much in a forum.............

.............There are several guys around this forum that understand the fact that good old quality machinery has a soul. It lives and breathes just like you or I. Doesn't matter if it's an old tractor, your grandad's pickup truck, something as humble as a windmill or as complex as the UP Big Boy strapped on to 110 boxcars pounding up a 2% grade. If it stirrs you a little inside ............ you're communicating

..............Buckshot

[Rayber]

Just an update.
My buddy and I picked up the LaBlond Sunday afternoon. It took 3 hours and 3 come-a-longs to move it up a ramp made form aircraft matting. We first jacked it up and put 4x6x8's under the feet. I used 1/2" lag screws to fasten it to the skids. We used some 1" bar stock to roll it on for part of the distance. I don't have photos. The camera got left at home an my bud forgot he could take pics with his phone. I ached 3 days after moving the beast.
We now have a problem. How do we get it off the trailer? The smart reply is " Very Carefully" She's HEAVY. We have decided we weren't going to drop it in my buds garage and then move it later when I had the shop addition completed. It's stuck on his trailer. We aren't really sure how we are going to get it off right now. The last plan was to slide it off the trailer on the aircraft matting and build a temporary shed around it. Then according to my daughters orders , we will prep the area beside the shop, dig and pour a footer and a slab. We'll construct the addition to the shop with a garage door and have it all completed before May. She helped me build our house over a 6 year period. She works a regular job but give up her time to help. She has volunteered her husband to help and do the roof. He doesn't know it yet.
In the mean time, I'm going to start cleaning her up. She has a new coat of paint under the oil and saw dust. I want to see whats really under all the dirt. I'll go from there. The previous owner is a machinist and when he got her she had been sand blasted and he put a good coat of enamel her.

[Buckshot]

..............A good way to get it off the trailer and check it out at the same time is to take it apart in assemblies.

...............Buckshot

[georgeld]

Hey you lucky sun of a gun!
Wish you the best with that jewel. Hope you'll post some pictures before long.

Get a Lee collet die of somekind. OR one of those mouth belling dies is good too. Anything
with a bushing in it. Make up a nice set from about .191" up to half in by .01-20" steps.
Use good steel so you can harden them. make double ended short tapers to feed the
case mouths into the hole. Be sure to highly polish the bores and tapers. At least 1000 grit.
Finer than that make's 'em better.

These are the best way to neck size case's down to smaller cals. Some have made
.17's out of .44 mags with enough steps and care. Made mine last summer and necked
about a thousand 5.7's down to .17's so far. Played with an '06. Got it down about 224"
for close to two inches just for something to play with before it crushed. Expect not
enough slick 'em, or too big a step maybe.

Am looking fwd to seeing pictures of this old lathe soon. Have fun and don't get hurt!

[creekwalker]

Buckshot is correct about taking as much off of the lathe as possible befor unloading it. That's exactly what I did with my SB 9A and it was one of the smarter things I've done in a while. Compaired to your LeBlond lathe mines a lightweight, until you try to move it.

Have you considered renting or borrowing a tractor with a front loader to lift the lathe out with? If that's not an option then get some bottle jacks and lift the lathe up and put some improvised pipe rollers under it and pull it off and down a reinforced shallow ramp. Then use the rollers and a pinch bar to move it into place.

I don't know what the LeBlond weighs but since I've decided to learn how to use a lathe and mill I'm considering one of the HF Shop cranes they currently have on sale.
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=93840
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=35915
Creekwalker

[Buckshot]

I don't know what the LeBlond weighs but since I've decided to learn how to use a lathe and mill I'm considering one of the HF Shop cranes they currently have on sale.
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=93840
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=35915
Creekwalker

..............Hey, you know there is a REAL problem with those things doncha!? You gotta have a FLOOR to run them on. I had a floor once but danged if I know where it went. Maybe I'll do some investigateing about that tomorrow morning. I know where it used to be, anyway.

...............Buckshot

[mold maker]

I've used both unites. They are inexpensive, but serve the purpose.
Note:
When folded they aren't stable and should be tied to the wall for safety. They will WHACK you when you least expect it.
Don't ask how I know.

[Rayber]

I've looked at both these lifts. After trying to move this beast I wouldn't trust either one to lift it safely. I've seen the smaller one with a V6 on it and it was sort of scarey. I think this critter is on the high end of the 1800-3000 lbs scale. Three of us could not budge her on the ground, We jacked her up 1/2 in and three of use were able to push her 2 feet with a lot of grunts and sore muscles. We used a 5 ton jack to get the legs up to put 4x6x8' Oak skids under the legs.( 1/2" lags in the leveling screw holes.)

I love the idea of taking her apart to move her but Marvin, my bud with the trailer, needed the trailer the Monday after we loaded it. He is suppling 2 households with firewood. It's not unloaded only because the ground in my field has been soaked the last three days. The truck and trailer would belly up in my driveway. I'm in rural Virginia in the middle of a hay field.

I'll keep this group informed of any progress as you seem to be interested. The real help will be needed when I get her set up and trying to figure out 1st gear.

[Buckshot]

I'll keep this group informed of any progress as you seem to be interested. The real help will be needed when I get her set up and trying to figure out 1st gear.

..............That's an excellent reason to be looking for a manual now

............Buckshot

[Rayber]

It looks like the LaBlonde is going to have to be stored until I get the shop addition built. It's going to have to be outside. I know that's not good. I had to store my radial arm saw and my table saw outside for years so I have had some experience. Except for the bottoms of the legs they both faired very well. I'm concerned with cleaning all the oil off of her. I had good luck with 2 layers of heavy clear plastic held up off the flat surfaces. I frequently removed the covers and sprayed down the surfaces with WD40, wiped them down , then I'd re-spray a fine mist over the flat surfaces and replace the cover it. I have to keep it tied down and put plywood on top to keep the wind from blowing the plastic off. I worry about ground moisture with all the bare surfaces on the lathe. I've thought about coating the whole thing with a thin layer of axle grease.
So I'm throwing this out there for suggestions. There is no inside storage available right now. We've canceled the idea of a temporary building. IT would be in the way of the addition.
Thanks
Ray

[Scrounger]

That is what Alox was actually made for. I understand you can buy the commercial stuff in 5 gallon lots. Cut it with mineral spirits and paint your lathe. Mineral spirits will be useful in taking the Alox off when that day comes. Any left offer can be used as bullet lube. One would think the shop would come before the tools but many of us have that 'work backwards' syndrome.

[DLCTEX]

Check out White Lable Lube for Large quanities of Alox, makes Lee's price look expensive. DALE