Much advantage with the Marlin 45-70 over the 444 Marlin?

[huntersdog]

Is there really that much of a difference using the 45-70 over the 444 Marlin out deer, elk and black bear hunting? A good cast .44 bullets should do very well and all 3 of the big game mentioned above. Any 444 Marlin lovers here?

[mogwai]

This can quickly escalate to full-out war, but for the game you described, I prefer the 444. Cast boolits from 240-300 that are sized to .432 will do the job.

J-word bullets from 265-300 will, too. I use 240 jsp for northern whitetails, but would recommend the 265 Hornady for one size fits all.

[osteodoc08]

There's no replacement for displacement. 45-70 all the way!

Seriously though, the 444 would be suitable for the game listed.

Once you get ahold of a guide gun in 45-70, you'll understand.

[huntersdog]

There's no replacement for displacement. 45-70 all the way!

Seriously though, the 444 would be suitable for the game listed.

Once you get ahold of a guide gun in 45-70, you'll understand.

The nice the is the 44 Mag and 444 Marlin can use the same hunting bullets. The downside is the 444 brass costs twice the 45-70.

[btroj]

I have both. Three deer, 2 bears have met the 45-70. Haven't gotten the 444 into the mix yet.

Personally I think the 45-70 has a better assortment of bullets available and just does what I want done.

[quilbilly]

When I got my 444 years ago, the only reason I didn't get the 45/70 instead was that I liked the variety of boolits to choose from in the 429 cal. all the way from 180 to 310 gr and beyond.

[missionary5155]

Good morning
When you realise there is only .030 diameter difference there should be very little "pop" difference on target. 444 (.430) with the same weight boolit cast of the same mix traveling at the same fps will do everything the .458 will do within a few hairs.
This is the very reason years ago I sold off my 44"s (.430 magnums)and happilly settled on calibers .41 and .45 . Just did not need an in between that was going to have no significant impact difference on target.
Same reason I built a .41-444 on a Marlin 336. I have within a hair the same results as the 444 Marlin but using a caliber I have a boxful of molds for.
You loose nothing. But if you have to buy one from scratch always go the larger. Bigger holes are always better if all other factors are equal.
Mike in Peru

[Suo Gan]

It is about the difference from being hit with a Peterbilt vs a Kenworth.

[Lonegun1894]

For the game listed, I don't think it matters. However, considering that the heavy bullets for the .444 are on the light sight end of the scale weight wise of the bullets available for the .45-70, the advantage of the .45 over the .44 is in the weight more than it is in the diameter. Here is the way I see it. With game under 400 lbs, I don't think it matters one bit which of these two you choose, but with game bigger than that, or even if you would someday like to hunt game bigger than that, I would go with the .45-70. I did, twice now.

[starmac]

The 444 got a bad rap from the gitgo with only pistol bullets available, that didn't perform on game at the velocities the cartridge generated.
With modern bullets, it is a whole different animal. That said, it will never be a 45/70, but with the proper loads can and will handle anything a guy wants to do.

[rhead]

In my AO an angry mamma sow is likely the most dangerous game i am likely to face. if i am hunting them i doubt there will be a difference. if they are hunting me i will take the 45 70.

[TXGunNut]

The 444 got a bad rap from the gitgo with only pistol bullets available, that didn't perform on game at the velocities the cartridge generated.
With modern bullets, it is a whole different animal. That said, it will never be a 45/70, but with the proper loads can and will handle anything a guy wants to do.

Last time I seriously considered a .444 the bullet selection was what turned me away. Even today the 45-70 still has the advantage of better availability of bullets, boolits, moulds, brass, dies, and rifles, IMHO. Situation has markedy improved over the past 25-30 years for the .444 but for me it will never replace or even rival the 45-70. Don't get me wrong, I consider the .444 a great big bore CB rifle cartridge but I'm trying to avoid the 40 and 43 calibers. If it needs to be bigger than 38 caliber then the 45 will have to do, for now.

[searcher4851]

45-70 can do anything the 444 can do, but the same can't be said in reverse. As far as the game you mentioned, either caliber will do just fine. I considered the 444 myself on a few occasions, but the for me, 45-70 always won out. I didn't really need to add another caliber to my reloading tasks, and I have 45-70's in various configurations, so it's the cartridge I stuck with.

[starmac]

I have never owned a 444, nor a 35 rem, but since they are interesting and capable lever guns, I have dies, and even brass for the 35 for when I run across a deal on them. lol

[bikerbeans]

huntersdog,

I have Marlin LGs in both 444M and 45-70 govt. I like them both and I have shot critters with both of them. My old, beatup 444s is my favorite, at least right now it is, and is my go to hunting rifle. If I didn't handload then the 45-70 would be my choice, I don't have much fondness for any of the factory loaded 444 ammo.

BB

[Ballistics in Scotland]

I think the .45-70 was very much the better in the days when the .444 had a 38in. twist, and those pistol bullets were pretty well inescapable. With a faster twist and heavier, better shaped bullets, the gap has narrowed - if indeed there is a gap.

Good as they are on game, I wouldn't call either of them a better killer than a 275gr. 338 with higher velocity. You can get higher velocity with the .444 before it begins to be seriously uncomfortable. The overall length is usually governed by the lever-action used, and one of the very few wildcat rounds for which I can think of a serious purpose would be a .444 case slightly shortened to permit a longer, lower drag bullet ogive.

[MT Chambers]

With the .444 you can't even load some .44 bullets because of the oal. requirements, which limits bullet length and weight, which is prolly alright because the twist rate is very slow. The 45/70 has it all over the .444 as a big game round. Now if they increased the oal., greatly lengthening bullets, and sped the twist up some, you would have a good argument.

[Bushrat]

I defense or the 444 check out the ballistic coefficnce of a 300 gr 44 bullet and then look to see what 45 bullet would be the same. The 444 has a big edge.

[Lonegun1894]

I don't think comparing the two calibers while limiting the bullet weight to the same weight is a fair comparison of these or any other two calibers. I mean, if BC was the only thing that counted, and we were stuck on a 300gr bullet, then imagine how much higher the BC of a .22" 300gr bullet would be than a .429" 300gr bullet. All I am saying is that using a 300gr bullet in the .45-70 is severely limiting what the caliber is actually capable of, and at least in my book, a lot like using a 110gr bullet in a .30-06 to limit recoil and then claiming that it isn't any more capable than a .30 Carbine. Not saying that those light weight bullets don't have a use, but you can't make a fair comparison, or an educated decision, on these two calibers if you start off with severely handicapping one of them right from the start.

[georgerkahn]

I love and agree with this (Peterbilt vs Kenworth) analogy! For many years, we've (local club members) referred to the .45-70 govt. as "shooting little Volkswagons". Albeit I have a Marlin .444 Guide Gun in my collection -- I've never heard of this caliber being paired with a vehicle...
I've favored the .45-70 as I have moulds for it, making it affordable to shoot, and -- as others noted -- high cost and little selection for the triple-four.
BEST!
georgerkahn