Lee 452-200-rf

[SlowMec]

Hi

I have a S&W 625-3 3" bbl.

I also have a LEE TL452-200-SWC 2-hole mold that we both dislike.
I don´t like the way the boolits snag in the cylinder when i load with fullmoon clips.
The revolver can´t keep then under 3" at 25 meters.
It can´t get a good grip in the rifling. I have tried different alloys.

Soo...

I´m thinking about buying the 452-200-RF mold.
It seems to have a longer contact surface than the SWC.

Is there anybody who knows the diameter on the RF as cast?

Or

Do You all think i should look for a different boolit?

I DO like 200gr....

[GoodOlBoy]

I will be perfectly honest and I KNOW I am going to catch heck for saying this. I have never seen a SWC Non-Keith (or for the most part even SOME keith style molds) that preformed as accurately as a RN or a RNFP. Not that I haven't seen SOME accuracy out of SOME SWC type molds. I am not saying they are not accurate at all by default I am saying that as it stands I have seen MUCH better accuracy from RN and RNFP molds ON AVERAGE.

Now that that is being said. IF you are going to tumble lube OR 45-45-10 I have a suggestion. On Lee's closeout page http://leeprecision.com/closeouts/ on the bottom right of the page are TWO Lee molds. A DC 452-200 RF, and a DC 452-228-1R. BOTH are shallow lube groove versions of the molds. Personally for your application I would lean towards the DC 452-228-1R Shallow Lube, but either would really work. I would already own both of those molds if I didn't already own the standard versions of them.

My 2 cents, and let us know how it works for you.

GoodOlBoy

[SlowMec]

Thank You GoodOlBoy.

I will use 45-45-10 mix. Used to use LLA.

Does "DC" mean "shallow grooves"?
Do You know how much shallower the grooves are compaired to the standard mold?

And:

Please tell me why You prefare (sp?) the 228gr?
I´m here to learn!

Anybody elses 2 cent? Please??

Edit: I see that the product nr for the 452-200-RF mold i´m thinking of is the same as the linked DC 452-200-RF mold.

source: Midway Sweden.
http://www.midway.se/epages/MidwaySv...oducts/789762&

[CastingFool]

SlowMec, DC means "Double Cavity". I have shot a few of those 452-200-RF. I loaded them for plinking, and they worked fine. I wasn't really shooting for accuracy either. With my eyesight I have difficulty seeing the iron sights clearly, so if I can keep them inside a paper plate at 15 yds shooting offhand, I'm happy. lol.

[SlowMec]

SlowMec, DC means "Double Cavity".

Shame on me! Of course it does, Doh!

I need a little better accuracy then 3" at 25m, more like 1 2/5 to 2".
I know that the revolver is up to it.

[shoot-n-lead]

That bullet will do fine for you.

I will not give GoodOlBoy heck...but I will say that most any of the SWC bullets, especially the Keith's, will provide very good accuracy and accuracy that will rival any RF. And, tumble lube works fine for regular lube grooves bullets as well as tumble lube designed bullets. I tumble lube all of my bullets for all calibers and I only have one TL mold...all others are regular lube groove.

[GoodOlBoy]

DC means double cavity. the shallow grooves list as .0075 I have no idea what the normal lube groove depth is.

I lean towards the 228 because it is closer to the original 45acp standard bullet and should work better with the taper crimp.

the link I sent you is for a 99234, the link you posted is for a 90234. Only difference in them should be the shallow lube grooves.


GoodOlBoy

[SlowMec]

GoodOlBoy:

You are correct sir.

I´m making a complete fool of me today!
I can´t even read.....

Since i only shooting in a revolver i´m getting a roll crimp die.

I live in Sweden and it is easier to buy localy and, usually, cheaper.
That makes me lean towards the standard mold.
What do You think about accuracy, 228gr vs 200gr?

[GoodOlBoy]

If you are getting the roll crimp die then you do want to stay away from the 228 I mentioned as it is meant to be a taper crimp bullet (not that you can't roll crimp it you can but that's not really a crimp groove on it)

That 200 RF should do well for you, if it doesn't I would be surprised.

I shoot 45 long colts out to 200 yards and beyond. I have never found even a Keith bullet to be AS ACCURATE as a round nose flat point, and standard truncated cone bullets were worse.

Looking back at my data for when I was doing load development for my 45 long colts about a decade or so back.

Out of a model 92 carbine braced on sandbags with Marbles semi buckhorn iron sights
at 200 yards a 250gr truncated cone bullet (don't remember who I bought them from this was before I cast myself) shot 6.5"+-, and shot a 3.5" group at 75 yards.
At 200 yards a 270 grain Keith (leadhead bullets) that would shoot large clover leafs at 75 yards opened up to just more than 4 inches for me.
At the same 200 yards 250 grain round nose flat point bullets (lasercast) that shot clover leafs at 75 yards still shot just over 2.25 inches for me.
(Nine years later) At 200 yards a 255gr Lee cast of bit softer lead over the same load as the 250gr lasercast shot a 2" group and a ragged, large hole at 75 yards. The Lee bullets were tumble lubed.

In comparison out of a 5.5" ruger blackhawk braced on sandbags again iron sights
at 50 yards the 250gr truncated cone shot 3" and shot a bit low and left. At 100 yards the 250gr truncated cone shot 10" but shot pretty well on.
at 50 yards 270 grain keith (leadhead) shot 4" but were dead on. at 100 yards the Keith's only opened up to 6" BUT were left of target. I have a note that says crosswind in my book, but doesn't say anything else.
at 50 yards 250gr RNFP lasercast grouped at 1.25" but were actually a hair high and left. I made no note but I suspect I had started pulling the trigger with my knuckle instead of my finger pad at this point. at 100 yards the same bullets were grouping 3" and dead on.
I don't list anything for the Lee's for the blackhawk nine years later when I started testing them, and I don't remember loading any in it. The lee's were cast for me by a friend and is one of the reasons I got into casting my own.

Other notes I show

laser cast 300gr truncated cone. Rossi - 75 yards 8 powder loads tested best group 5 inches from Unique. Only had about 40 of these to test. Didn't buy any more obviously.
Hornady 250gr XTP - Rossi Only - grouped around 2" at 75 yards.
Hornady 300gr XTP Mag - Rossi Only - grouped around 1.25" at 75 yards. High powdered load loaded by dad. Even made notes about recoil and pain on this one.
Speed Idaho Territory bullet .454 230gr lead FN - Rossi only 75 yards. less than 1" group. I wish they still made these #4680s
lasercast 250gr RNFP (again) - Rossi only - trail boss powder 1" group at 50 yards.
Going Ballistic Bullets 250gr RNFP - Rossi only - several powders best group .75" at 50 yards, worse 1.25" at 50 yards.
Rim Rock Bullets 250gr RNFP - Rossi only - again several powders. Best group 1" at 50 yards, worse 2" at 50 yards.

and the list goes on, but these are the highlights of what I have used.

Anyway my point is that none of my guns ever liked truncated cones, or keiths at longer ranges. At short ranges the Keiths were good and would make a heck of a hole in a critter.

GoodOlBoy

[SlowMec]

Thanks GoodOlBoy

I´ve located a dude here i Sweden that sells boolits from the 200gr RF Lee mold.

I will buy some of him and try them out before deciding.

[GoodOlBoy]

Now that DOES sound like a good plan. Even though the mold isn't expensive it would be a shame to find out it doesn't work well for you either. One thing you might try is slugging your barrel. Alot of the guys around here do it. You might find that your barrel is over sized in which case you will actually want to bump up a mold size.

GoodOlBoy

[DougGuy]

Now that DOES sound like a good plan. Even though the mold isn't expensive it would be a shame to find out it doesn't work well for you either. One thing you might try is slugging your barrel. Alot of the guys around here do it. You might find that your barrel is over sized in which case you will actually want to bump up a mold size.

GoodOlBoy

Also not uncommon to need to ream and enlarge the cylinder throats if you want to shoot a certain boolit diameter. If the gun shows poor accuracy, usually boolit fitment is the culprit.

[dubber123]

My 6 cavity LEE 200 RF just barely squeeks out .452" diameter from straight WW's. It weighs 215 grains from my mold also. It also shoots not a whole lot over 2" at 50 yards from my 4" S&W 625. I shoot a stout load of Power Pistol with this boolit. Good luck.

[GoodOlBoy]

Good point Doug, I hadn't thought of that and should. I had that issue with my blackhawk with a single cylinder throat.

GoodOlBoy

[SlowMec]

Hi there dubber123, nice to see a fellow 625 owner!
What is Your favorite boolit?
I think my accuracy problem is due to swallow rifling. It´s for jacketed bullets.

The gun is slugged, both bore and cylinder. Barrel is .451-ish (not easy to measure).
It is perhaps a very slight "choke" on it where it goes through the frame, but i´m not sure.
It´s very little if any, could be it was not super clean. I may have to reslug it. (did i just invent a word!?)

Cylinder is .452 if i remember correct. (haven´t the note near me at the moment)

[fredj338]

LSWC in the m625, just not a good choice. The rnfp will feed slick as. Accuracy is going to have a lot to do with fit. Check cyl throats, if they are small accuracy will suffer.

[390ish]

You gotta cast sub 230 grainers pretty hard for the most part to get them to work in a 45acp revolver. I can only get water quenched wheel weights to shoot in mine, but they shoot well.

[dubber123]

Hi there dubber123, nice to see a fellow 625 owner!
What is Your favorite boolit?
I think my accuracy problem is due to swallow rifling. It´s for jacketed bullets.

The gun is slugged, both bore and cylinder. Barrel is .451-ish (not easy to measure).
It is perhaps a very slight "choke" on it where it goes through the frame, but i´m not sure.
It´s very little if any, could be ti was not super clean. I may have to reslug it. (did i just invent a word!?)

Cylinder is .452 if i remember correct. (haven´t the note near me at the moment)

If there is any thread choke, you need to get rid of that, otherwise it sounds like you have good dimensions. I have shot mostly the LEE 228 1R, their RN with regular lube grooves as this was my falling plates competition gun. The LEE 200 RF I mentioned has been the most accurate I tried, but it was with a very hot load of Power Pistol, not a plinking load. I don't think I ever used more than 14Bhn boolits in mine. It is a newer model with the EDM rifling.

[ReloaderEd]

Get the Lee 200RF shallow groove. It'll work. I size mine at .452 with alox 50/50 lube. In my 625 5" it keeps the inside a 2" circle at 25yds be safe

[SlowMec]

If there is any thread choke, you need to get rid of that, otherwise it sounds like you have good dimensions. I have shot mostly the LEE 228 1R, their RN with regular lube grooves as this was my falling plates competition gun. The LEE 200 RF I mentioned has been the most accurate I tried, but it was with a very hot load of Power Pistol, not a plinking load. I don't think I ever used more than 14Bhn boolits in mine. It is a newer model with the EDM rifling.

I have just resluged my revolver.

Barrel in frame (thread choke location)=0,54118"
Barrel in front of frame (1/2") =0,45118"

Cylinder: 4 throats=0,4527"
2 throats=0,4529"
All measurment is taken with a metric micrometer and calculated to inch.

Seems okey to me!

I don´t have any of the LEE 452-200 SWC casted right now but i bet on that they are small!