More proof, Dacron works!

[gpidaho]

Just about to get up the nerve to give fillers a try will read up some on Larrys method. For annealing checks I use a piece of black pipe with a cap on the bottom and an elbow to more pipe and a tee for weight that rests on the top of my Lyman Mag 20 for weight. just put some checks in the pipe and let it soak in the melt while you cast. the 700 degree lead does a real nice job of annealing the checks making them easier to get on and very tight. GP

[Boolseye]

I worked up the nerve to try Dacron recently and have been happy with the results.
in 7.62X54R, a lot of loads with fast rifle powder are 80% case capacity or less.
The filler seems to tighten the groups and give me slightly higher velocities (more complete burn?).

[waco]

As per Larry Gibson's advice, I tried Dacron for the first time some months ago in the .30-30 and .308. 2400 and SR4759 were the powders used. The filler almost cut my groups in half!
Not just a fluke either. Consistant from day to day. .7gr of Dacron to be exact.

[1johnlb]

Just about to get up the nerve to give fillers a try will read up some on Larrys method. For annealing checks I use a piece of black pipe with a cap on the bottom and an elbow to more pipe and a tee for weight that rests on the top of my Lyman Mag 20 for weight. just put some checks in the pipe and let it soak in the melt while you cast. the 700 degree lead does a real nice job of annealing the checks making themthem easier to get on and very tight. GP

The hard gc's increase your leads capability to grip the rifling for higheri velocity.

[RED333]

Well my wife does not like fake fiber, so we have a lot of cotton batting, any one used it?

[44man]

I use what is called garnetted fiberfill. It doesn't have those thick strands. Joanne Fabrics has it.

[Larry Gibson]

The hard gc's increase your leads capability to grip the rifling for higheri velocity.

Actually the increase in velocity is because the dacron filler increases burning efficiency and decreases case capacity.

Larry Gibson

[Pilgrim]

Well my wife does not like fake fiber, so we have a lot of cotton batting, any one used it?

xxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Your wife should be tolerant of fake fibers in your shop. If not, look for some old time life preservers. The type that loops around your neck and has a strap that goes around your back. In side of the orange outer covering will be plastic encased kapok. Before dacron was "discovered" and promoted on this site, the old timers used kapok as a filler to hold the powder in place. I've got a bunch sitting under my loading bench waiting for me to give it a side by side comparison with dacron. It is considerably more dense than dacron, so care in trying the stuff is in order. On the other hand, it will "expand" like dacron, but not as much as dacron. It should work just fine. More on kapok later when I get around to trying it. Pilgrim

[Larry Gibson]

I used cotton for a while and all went well until the dry summer months when the grass dried. After stomping out 2 fires in front of the bench (yes cotton does burn) and ruining a good pair of sneakers I quit using cotton. I've not had a single problem with Dacron/polyester. It's not that embarrassing to being seen in the fabric department at Wally World or even in JoAnnes and buy Dacron batting. Even had a couple sales gals ask for my phone number so their husbands, who also cast bullets, could call me to find out how I used it.

Larry Gibson

[1johnlb]

Actually the increase in velocity is because the dacron filler increases burning efficiency and decreases case capacity.

Larry Gibson

Softer [annealed] gc's has the same effect as softer lead. Maybe my statement wasn't clear. In my exsperience, if you use a softer gc [example.al ] you decrease you projectile's ability to grip the rifling in turn decreasing the velocity that your able to push the projectile to. When you put a gas check on a projectile and that projectile is pushed down the barrel it becomes part of that projectile from rearward pressure and being incased by the barrel, thus increasing the projectiles ability to grip the rifling. Although my exsperience isn't as much as others here, that has been my exsperience.

Was not speaking of were increase of velocity came from, just the projectile's ability at higher velocity.

I agree with your statement of the dacrons effect. It has been very apparent in my own testing and is why I have jugs of cut up dacron on my shelf ready to use. Thanks to you Larry.

[303Guy]

Well my wife does not like fake fiber, so we have a lot of cotton batting, any one used it?

I have. As Larry says, it can burn and when it does it is pretty good at setting the countryside on fire. I captured the burning cotton in my 'test tube'. it smoulders quietly until it bursts into flames.

[frnkeore]

Proof that no filler is needed if you use one of the right powders for the application.

13.5 gr AA#9, 33 cal 357 max case, with the bullet in front of the case. Less than 50% case capacity.


All shot at 200 yards, in sactioned ASSRA matches and publicly posted.

Frank

[303Guy]

I would have thought fillers would only be of benefit in larger rifle cases? Those are pretty impressive groups!

[1johnlb]

A lot of group variation,but still great shooting Frank. Some dacron very well may have shrunk the last 2 groups. Dacron may not be needed, but it definitely can make a good combination better.

[frnkeore]

A lot of group variation,but still great shooting Frank. Some dacron very well may have shrunk the last 2 groups. Dacron may not be needed, but it definitely can make a good combination better.

Sorry about the loosey shooting (the largest 10 shot group is less than .69 MOA) but, I know of no shooting records, ever made with Dacron or any other filler. Like I've posted before, fillers are a crouch for a load that isn't the best and like Lyman says, they can't recommend there use because of safety reasons.

Frank

[dondiego]

Oh, I wish that I could shoot that lousy! ..................at even 100 yards, much less 200 with a handgun?

Don

[geargnasher]

The hard gc's increase your leads capability to grip the rifling for higheri velocity.

Umm, no. Not unless you solder them on the shank.

Gear

[frnkeore]

Oh, I wish that I could shoot that lousy! ..................at even 100 yards, much less 200 with a handgun?

Don

Not a hand gun but, hand gun velocitys of 1470 fps.

Frank

[Larry Gibson]

Well, we see Frank has made his usual appearance on the topic. Nice to know he does agree with us that "no filler is needed if you use one of the right powders for the application". However if the "application" is not suitable to that powder w/o the use of the proper filler and using the proper filler makes it "suitable" then so much the better. Frank really needs to study the subject and get a little more experience with the use of a proper filler with a proper powder under a proper bullet weight. His ill begotten foray into such have sure turned him against fillers of any kind. That's okay as that's his choice based on his own poor experience.

There are numerous things Lyman recommends against in their latest manual that many of us do anyway, same as with most other manuals. Ever wonder how in Lyman's current #49 manual they simply make no mention if the use of a filler or wad. In Lyman's #4 CBH Mike V says, in his article, both he and Lyman do not recommend fillers........strange Lyman does not mention that in "there" (their?) "Introduction To Data" section .......notice Lyman also doesn't recommend the use of '06 cases for forming into 6.5 swede cases. Many of us have done it for years w/o any problems and most of us will continue to. Most all manufacturers (US ones anyway) of 6.5 cases/ammunition use '06 based case dimensions.............notice how Frank uses a powder not listed in Lyman's manual? Some assume that is tantamount to not recommending it........but Frank has his own opinions and that is ok...........

For those of us (appears there are many from this thread alone) who understand when to use a filler, what to use for a filler and when not to use a filler, which apparently Frank doesn't, that we all shall continue suing said fillers, especially Dacron fillers, for successful and more accurate cast bullet shooting........accuracy records not with standing.........nor as a "crouch"....(crutch?)

Larry Gibson

[RED333]

Well I aint about to start a fire, so off to the store.