Man Eaters of Tsavo

[old and wise]

excellent book. will never make it to Africa but read much about it

[woodbutcher]

First read that book when I was in the eighth grade.Back in 1957.Great read.
Good luck.Have fun.Be safe.
Leo

[saidnuff]

You can get the man eaters of the Tsalvo for free from Kindal books. You can get a Kindal app for just about any handheld. here's the link http://www.amazon.com/Man-Eaters-Tsa...s+of+the+savao

[TXGunNut]

I'd be quite comfortable (all things considered) with my Guide Gun in 45-70 loaded with RD's 460-350 boolits. Quick on target and hits as hard as anything I can handle. A riot gun or 12ga SxS loaded up with slugs or buckshot sounds good but I've never shot anything big & cranky with one.

[starmac]

I would be more comfortable with the 45/70 gg, than anything else I own. Mainly because I have shot a lever action much more than bolt guns, and am way quicker if I need an extra shot.

[ksfowler166]

I am as well. I just talked to my father to let him know I was sending him a used copy of the full book I found on Amazon for less than four bucks. Anyway, I mentioned to him about the slug and he was surprised by that as well as he prefers to hunt with slugs. Were the slugs then loaded with bp? What type of energy would he be getting?

I can offer my best guest. He would have been shooting brass hull with either BP, Cordite, or bulk smokeless powder. The only projectile he could have used would be roundballs (~550gr) unless he was shooting a Paradox gun. With the above roundball load accuracy would have been spotty and if loaded with BP not had enough energy to work well. There can be large difference between BP and smokeless loads though with RB's I don't know how much. Just look at the 450 BPE with black powder one of the worlds best deer loads while with smokeless (450 NE) was a favorite for any game in the world until Great Briton banned the use of 45 caliber rifles.

As for what I would take that would be a Savage Stevens 12ga SxS cut down to a 24" barrel and fitted with rifled chokes and rifle sights with a Paradox slug. Which is a .730" projectile with a weight of 730gr at about 1200fps.

[kawasakifreak77]

Sounds like an incredible story!

As to what I would bring.. nothing in my collection seems powerful enough to trust my life with against something that wants me for dinner. Highest FPE rifle I own is a 6.5 swede which is more than powerful enough for my needs. I'd go out & buy a 375 H&H with open sights if I had to go but I don't know much about this.

I've always wanted a 375 H&H anyways!

[Goatwhiskers]

FWIW, I tried to go to the site for the full read and can't, there seems to be some problem with the security certificate. GW

[Kevinakaq]

Hmm i will download it to my local account and relink...

EDIT:
Try this link and let me know please as i am doing this from my ipad. Should take you to a dropbox page and allow you to download. It is a hair shy of 15 meg.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/hfrbvppu59...tiala.pdf?dl=0

[scattershot]

Thanks for the link, looking forward to reading it.

[John Van Gelder]

I have been to the Field Museum, and seen the lions. I have also spent a lot of time on Kodiak Island and do not think the cats would stand a chance compared with the biggest carnivores on Earth.

But it is a given that African Lions are truly a force to contend with.

[nylocmik]

Regardless the caliber of the gun, I think the caliber of the man is most noteworthy. Pretty scary hunting an animal that is not only unafraid of humans, but takes pleasure from killing them. Not for a small gun or a small man.

[John Van Gelder]

I share my neighborhood with mt. lions, I killed one back in July that had camped out on the edge of my horse pasture, I walked up on that cat in a thicket and did not see him until I was about 15 feet away, he was lying down near a deer kill and showed absolutely no fear of me. I also have about five different bears that have showed on my trail cameras, I would rather deal with the bears than the cats.

When checking the cameras last weekend, I found pictures of another mt. lion..

[Multigunner]

The hides of the T'savo lions were several inches thick and crisscrossed with layers of scar tissue. The effect was like medieval armor. The 12 Ga ball only penetratred about two inches then was deflected by thick layers of sinew and ran under the skin along side the spine.

When they mounted the hides many years later they had to trrim, scrape, and steam the hides to force fit them to metal frames.
If you compare the skulls to the mounted animals you'll see these had to be twice as big when alive.

The T'savo lions are descendents of lions that followed slave carravans devouring slaves that were abandoned or escaped. When climate change stranded the beasts in T'savo they turned cannibal, only the strongest and most vicious survived to breed.

Scientific testing of the present day T'savo lions show extreme hormone imbalances that make them extra strong and vicious compared to other lion populations.

The .303 rounds Patterson would have used would have been round nosed 215 gr at around 2,000 FPS. The round was not noted as a manstopper much less a big five dangerous game cartridge in those days.
Penetration was fine, but it made small holes with little disruption of tissue.

The Dum Dum and later MkIV and Mk5 hollow points caused a lot of tissue disruption but did not penetrate very well.

[mannyCA]

Sadly, for the most part, that Africa is long gone.

[BruceB]

[QUOTE=Multigunner;2943930]The hides of the T'savo lions were several inches thick and crisscrossed with layers of scar tissue. The effect was like medieval armor. QUOTE]

Something about this statement struck me as wrong.

A quick check of several encyclopedia sources disclosed that all of them stated that ELEPHANTS have hide thickness of about one inch.

No lion that ever lived had a hide thicker than the pachyderm family.

[Multigunner]

No lion that ever lived had a hide thicker than the pachyderm family.

These did.
A lifetime of forcing their way through the thick sharp thorns that were common in that region and fighting with other lions had left these veteran killers covered with crisscrosed scars under the surface, mostly at head, shoulders and back.
T'savo lions are atypical, not your run of the mill lions.

[zac0419]

I too liked the story and put up with the movie. I like movies enough to appreciate that one was made so we could watch the story on a big screen.

As to the what guns from my safe to bring?

I'm not really set up for DG but I would start with my 375 Winchester Big Bore at a distance and draw my Freedom Arms 475 when I ran out of ammo in the Lever. I'd love to say I'd only bring the 475LB, but betting on my life makes me want to keep distance between prey and myself (also prey).

[Multigunner]

A quick look at a site with recent photos of present day Tsavo lions showed two close ups of lions with obvious recent scars at head and front og the body, whether from thorn bushes or fights with other lions it doesn't say.
I've seen keloid scars on human beings that were over 1/4" thick so scars in a lion's hide from savage batrtles with other lions could easily be more than an inch thicker than un marred areas of skin.
I've also found healed wounds in tanned cow hides from Argentina that had scar tissue 1/4 inch thick and these were difficult to cut with a razor sharp knife. One hide had what looked to be a partly healed wound from being gored, the softer partly healed skin in the center not surviving the skinning and tanning process, but the huge star shaped pattern of ropy scarring around the center was very thick and hard to cut. There were no signs of the wound having been stitched up, it may have been bandaged or just healed on its own without treatment.

My Shar Pei has the three layer skin of that breed. The middle layer is impregnated with a thick glue like matter that when the outer layer is cut or torn will quickly seal the wound. Not all animal skin is alike.

BTW
A site on the Giffafe claims that that animal has the thickest skin of land mammals.

[Multigunner]

Excuse me I meant Giraffe. My editing button still doesn't work.