38-55 Dies??

[ohiochuck]

Will soon be the owner of a new, as of 111 years ago, Winchester 1894 rifle in 38-55. Which die set is better for reloading cast and possibly some jacketed bullets? Plan to use it for deer hunting in Ohio this fall. Also I am looking for 50-100 Starline long brass.
Thanks!
Jim

[yooper]

Congratulations on your new (old) toy. Don't forget the pics. I'm a believer in RCBS but I don't load cast, so I'll let the smarter ones counsel you on that.
yooper

[Hickok]

I use the RCBS Cowboy dies. Also, my barrel is .379" groove diameter and I use a .381" boolit. I had to get Starline brass, because using Winchester brass, which is thicker, with this boolit, chambering was difficult. The Starline brass is much thinner and allows easy chambering with this larger boolit diameter.

[MarkP]

I use RCBS & LEE dies; most of my 38-55 rifles the grooves are .379" and I shoot .381"s in all. I have WW, starline 38-55 brass and re-formed 30-30 (Frontier Headstamped - Hornady loaded but brass mfg'd by WW and Federal). The Lee would probaly be about correct if I was using .375" bullets in Starline Brass, but tends to oversize IMO. I also use a Pacific Durachrome die in 378 Wby to just kiss the mouth to provide enough tension to hold a .381" boolit.

[yooper]

I should also have mentioned - you're getting an older '94. You'll want to slug the barrel before you try loading any cast bullets. Stories have the diameter on early Winchesters as being "inconsistent" in bore diameter, and I'm being kind.
yooper

[Jimmy10mm]

Just a caution, if you're going with the long Starline brass some boolits may cause too long an overall length to function in a lever action. Happened to me using a 245 grn Penn boolit in my Marlin 336CB. Works fine in my single shot but had to go with short brass in the lever gun. I also use RCBS cowboy dies along with a Lee crimp die.

[45coltnut]

Jim,

Congrats on the "new" 38-55. Go to http://custombrassandbullets.com/slb146.html as they have in stock the Starline 2.125" brass. They sell them in bundles of 20. And, it appears as of this post, they still have 64 bundles left. I just bought 200 the other day so I'd have them. I'm actually amazed they have lasted this long as they started out with 200 or so bundles. I hope this helps and keep us informed on the new 38-55.

BTW, with the old guns I'd guess the bore to be on the large size. Which means shooting jacketed bullets won't be worth a hoot. But, go to a good ole cast at a larger diameter and I bet she shoots!


Edit; if the brass proves to be too long, at least you can trim them down. My 94 (only 40 years old) will shoot both. But, should I ever encounter a combination that gives me issues then that's my plan.

[Baja_Traveler]

X2 on the Cowboy dies - specifically made for loading cast...

[GOPHER SLAYER]

I own two 38-55s and I ditto the RCBS cowboy action dies. Great cartridge.

[TXGunNut]

Congrats on the new/old rifle!
I have two sets of RCBS Cowboy dies, if (when) I score a 38-55 I'll have another.

[ohiochuck]

45coltnut
Thanks for the brass info.
Ordered 160 rounds.
Jim

[JesterGrin_1]

As Said.
RCBS Cowboy Die set.

Make sure to slug your bore and just forget about Jacketed bullets in that old Winchester. They might hit a barn if you are inside the barn at the time lol.

[EDG]

I have standard RCBS 38-55 dies. But I use Track of the Wolf expanders in a Lee .375/.38-55 Win expander die.

[trapdoor1873]

I have a set of Lyman .38-55 dies. I really like the M expander die. I use starline 2.125 my winchester 94.

[wgr]

do you need to buy the whole die set when getting the cowboy die sets.

[TXGunNut]

do you need to buy the whole die set when getting the cowboy die sets.

No, but I like the sizer die as well as the epander die. Sizer seems to work the brass less. You can also buy a "replacement" expander and use it in another die body like the Lyman "M" or a similar RCBS body.

[John Boy]

There is absolutely nothing wrong with Lee 38-55 dies - Lee Expansion Die and TOTW neck expander plugs.

[Chill Wills]

Don't make the mistake of getting the short 2.085" length starline brass. In 1894, Winchester brass, like Winchester chambers were cut to use 2.130" cases. Starline offers a (slightly short) 2.125" case and that is close enough. I'm happy they are even available. Lawyers must not load ammo. As soon as that new 2.125" case is fired the first time it will be even shorter..... then slowly lengthen with each firing until the mouths are a bit long and uneven, then time to trim. Don't buy the short cases.

The other option for correct length brass is Dave Gullo's stretched WW which are great too but for lever rifles the Starline are fine. I like the stretched brass for BPCR Singleshot rifles and real Black Powder.

The suggestion of .379" or larger bullets is correct. Not saying you would never find a large Winchester but I've owned three of these pre 1900 Winchesters and shot with others that have them too and I can not say that Winchester had any trouble holding barrel diameters to .379". Now, with the still older Ballard, Remington roller and Hepburn 38-55 singleshots added in, there is some variation on the larger side. My Hepburn shows nice rifling still but is .381" on the chamber end and .380" at muzzles end.

Dies: When shooting cast, there are replacement expander plugs that you can get that are larger...... If you want to shoot a .379-380" bullet, make sure you have a expander that measures two thousands or so under bullet diameter. Buffalo Arms will provide anything you want to fit RCBS or Lyman. In the above example, to prepare a case to receive (seat) a 0.379" bullet, a two diameter plug ( to open the case mouth) should look like 0.377" - 0.382". That plug expands the case mouth BODY with the 0.377" and flairs the case mouth opening with the 0.382" part. Yes?

Remember, when case sizing down or expanding up, there is always a little spring back. You never get what the steel die mic's.
Have fun with that rifle!

Chill Wills

[Wayne Smith]

I will concur with the RCBS Cowboy dies but don't forget CH4D. Give Dave a call and tell him what you have and be prepared for a half an hour or more conversation! He will make you what you need, probably has it on the shelf.

[ohiochuck]

Fantastic Brass Service!!
I took 45Coltnut's advice and ordered Starline long 38-55 brass from Custom Brass & Bullets.
Wow!! Fast turn around. Ordered last Friday by sending a money order. Received by them on Monday and mailed to me the same day. Received them today.
Fantastic quick service!!
Thanks!!
Jim
http://custombrassandbullets.com/slb146.html