Dacron?

[randyrat]

Yes the polyester fill is dacron. I buy the batton sheets of it (5/8ths) at sewing stores. I then cut into strips about 3/4" wide and then cut those into squares. I store them in a coffee can. Easy to do while watching the tube. The squares are 1/2 to 3/4s gr and are right for a filler in most cases. The smaller calibers like .223 I cut the square in half. I use a section of .22 cal cleaning rod to push the dacron into the case with. I also don't tamp it down on the powder but let the bullet push it down. Works very good in most application with medium burning powders are 80% or less loading density. I don't use a filler or wad with faster pistol type powders.

Besides giving more uniform internal balistics because of consitant ignition the dacron wad seems to (I've not done any real testing on this) allow for somewhat higher velocities with accuracy when using PB bullets.

Larry Gibson

i though it was for straight walled cases?

[Larry Gibson]

i though it was for straight walled cases?

I use dacron as a filler only in any rifle case, straight or bottle necked, with medium to heavy cast bullets where a medium or slow burning powder is used and load density is 80% or less. I do not use dacron (as a filler or wad) with faster pistol powders and cast bullets of any weight as with the right powder a wad or filler is not needed.

I use the dacron as filler in rifle cases for two reasons; first is it improves the consistancy of ignition and thus lowers shot to shot velocity variation (ES: Exreme Spread). Second is, the dacron filler, as opposed to a wad, eliminates movement of the wad (in cartridges still in the magazine) under recoil and prevents powder migration around the wad. An important consideration for using these loads in repeaters.

Larry Gibson

[35remington]

Dacron also helps prevent gascutting of the plainbase bullet. I use it with faster shotgun powders for this benefit as well as slower powders, but ultimately that's up to the user.

I use the pillow sized bags that say "100 percent polyester fiberfill."

I grab a small tuft from a wad plucked from the bag, make sure it is well lofted (takes up maximum space) before poking it into the case with an old standard screwdriver. Usual weight is a small fraction of a grain. I fill the space completely between powder and bullet but don't pack it in.

In deliberate tests, it is possible to see the effect the powder charge has on dacron if you use enough of it to leave the barrel intact (not something I usually do).

For example, in my .35 Remington a recovered dacron filler has a round fused area that exactly matches the diameter of the bullet base. In my .25-20 with fast powders, a small fused area is present in the dacron, presumably that part closest to the powder flame, as it does not match bullet base diameter. This fusing is more prevalent with fast pistol type powders than light charges of 4227, 2400, 4759 or similar.

In amounts appropriate to fill the case from powder to bullet and no more, it is difficult to find the dacron in front of the shooting bench while shooting the smaller cased cartridges unless a larger than normal amount is used (not recommended). In larger cased cartridges it is a little more common to find the spent polyester, usually dirty gray. The dacron fibers are often broken up into shorter strands after their journey, and the recovered tuft looks like fine gray/blackened straw.

Many favorite reduced cast bullet powders like 4227 and others suffer from wide velocity variation unless dacron is used, which is where it is best suited. IMO.

[Guido4198]

When I've used a filler, it is a polyester material I bought in a bulk bag @ Wally-World. ( The thought of stealing toys from small children hadn't ocurred to me...)
Working up a mild load for my .458 Win mag, I tried some loads with and without use of this poly fill, and was kind of suprised at the results.
These were loaded with a 500 gn. NEI cast from 30:1 Pb/Sn, sized .459, NRA/alox lube, WLRM primer, 50.0 gn. IMR-4895 powder. Rifle is a Remington 700 w/ 21" Douglas bbl. and Millet red dot sight. I only fired 5 rounds of each and cannot say if these results will stand up with a larger sample size, but I believe they will based on the consistency shown in each group.
with NO filler...Mv(ave)=1377 fps, Es=16.
WITH filler...Mv(ave)=1596 fps, Es=30.
As you will expect, the loads with filler produced a noticable increase in perceived recoil. Both shot quite well from my rifle producing a single "ragged hole" @ 50 yds. from a rest.

[pa_guns]

Hi

My *guess* is that your ES will ultimately come out better with the filler than without.

That of course *assumes* that you don't have something nasty in the filler. There are *lots* of different chemical formulas that all get called polyester.

Bob

[WineMan]

Thanks for all of the great replies!

Dave

[FWAddit]

I use kapok because I have a big supply from life jackets damaged by mice. I use it even in loads with higher than 80% density because it prevents leading up past pressures that cause the bullet to fail from slumping.

Bullets recovered from packed snow indicate that the kapok filler acts by preventing gas cutting, which gas checks (in my experience) do not do completely. It must act as a gasket at the rear edge of the bullet. Results with Dacron are just as good, but no better. I've never noticed Dacron after firing; sometimes a little kapok fluff comes floating down after the shot.

Interesting about the dryer lint; I'm going to try some, just for the heck of it!

[Buckshot]

.............heh, heh I saw DACRON and didn't even wanna look in or post. Pretend I didn't post. I haven't read anything yet

..................Buckshot

[pa_guns]

Hi

In the old days there was one other reason to do the flame test.....

One of the "alternative" forms of filler was a common plastic - cellulose nitrate. We know it with the name reversed - nitro cellulose. It's the main component of a lot of powders. Using that stuff as filler is pretty much guaranteed to ruin your day. As a matter of fact, using it as filler in a toy is equally dangerous ...

Bob

[BAGTIC]

I wouldn't expect any of the fillers to actually burn, at least not very well, as they all lack a supply of necessary oxygen inside the fired cartridge. Even the gases from cartridges fired without fillers tend to be oxygen deficient and contain carbon monoxide.

[pa_guns]

I wouldn't expect any of the fillers to actually burn, at least not very well, as they all lack a supply of necessary oxygen inside the fired cartridge. Even the gases from cartridges fired without fillers tend to be oxygen deficient and contain carbon monoxide.

Hi

Some plastics melt at high temperature. Melted plastic isn't a good thing to coat the inside of your barrel with ...

Bob

[swampmaster]

Kapok is what I used to use and will use again, as I have a few lifetimes worth of it, I also sell it for at gun shows once in a while makes a great firestarter also

[testhop]

swampmaster
iam with you on kopok i have used it for filler and as a fire starter works great in both jobs
it will lite with a spark and i have never had any blow out of a barrelwhen used as a filler

[HORNET]

Toilet paper (clean, ya wierdos) can also be used as a filler and is easy to measure to get a consistent quantity. It's still a pain to stuff into a case, but doesn't seem to burn in the barrel. I gave up on trying to stuff it into .22 center-fires after shooting into a light breeze and having to stop and clean the fuzz off the objective lens after 10 shots...

[softpoint]

Yup, allus use UNUSED toilet paper as moisture will contaminate powder! And those who use kitty litter to tumble cases in should takea similar approach

[Ricochet]

That reminds me, when you have young kids around in the winter, a wood stove is good for disposing of disposable diapers. Just don't go outside for a few minutes afterward. You can pile 'em in a corner during the spring, summer and fall till you fire up the stove again.

[pa_guns]

That reminds me, when you have young kids around in the winter, a wood stove is good for disposing of disposable diapers. Just don't go outside for a few minutes afterward. You can pile 'em in a corner during the spring, summer and fall till you fire up the stove again.

Hi

I'll bet anybody out on the sidewalk at the time doesn't hang around for long ...

Bob

[Ricochet]

Keeps the neighborhood quiet.

[American]

Found this in a thread called "WC 820 in 7.62X39" over in the Surplus Powder Data forum:

---------------------
"With 15 grs in the case, there's still a lot of air space and this powder is obviously position sensitive. With the first group, the velocity was 1707 on the first shot. For the remainder of the shots, I raised the barrel to verticle to settle the powder and the average velocity was 1791 with an ES of 34.
With the second group, I raised the barrel before each shot and the ES was much closer.
….Just wish it would shoot the plain base boolits as well."
--------------------

Since I just ordered a six-pac of WC820 for use in, among other things, 762x39, it was good to find this thread, but a little disappointed to think that I'd have to tilt my gun a certain way to get to work at its best.

Would this be an application where a Dacron or kapok puff might be of use to minimize the "position sensitive" part of this load?

Also, will Dacron or kapok act like a gas check for 155 gr cast boolits w/o GCs (and at 1700 fps), as seems to be implied above? Is one preferable to the other in this application?

PS - Thanks much for the tip on using kapok for tinder! The wife and I have been looking into learning to start fires with sparks and other primitive, make-do methods. I have several old PFDs whose stuffing will now be stored in a couple ammo boxes with desiccant for safe keeping.

[Scrounger]

Either that or add another grain of powder. Same result.