Consistent Crimp Handle

[seanhagerty]

Good day sir. It has been a day or three.

I stand corrected, I saw there is a CC set up for the dillon. I guess I should pay attention before I talk.

Sean

Greetings all. After tracing the sudden activity from Castboolits through Google analytics I decided to make myself available to answer any questions you may have. I am the inventor, patent holder, and manufacturer of the Consistent Crimp. Ask away.


PS. Greetings Sean, it has been a long time!

[Tuckerp229]

A few questions and assertions made on page one:

"Ubetcha"

I believe Titan Reloading has something similar on their website. I think it's a torque wrench made to fit the press handle.

Titan is one of our dealers. He does a great job over the span of his whole product line, check him out! What he offers is the Consistent Crimp. The CC utilizes tried and true technology. Most of us have a micro click torque wrench in our tool box and trust it completely. While the CC uses this same technology, it is a bit special in two ways:
1. You may note that torque wrench companies, (Sears, Snap On, Maco), seek to force you into the purchase of multiple wrenches to span the probable usage range. Ex: 1-25Ftlbs and 25-75 ftlbs, and so on. When we had these wrenches manufactured we had them re calibrated to span the entire range needed for load development for all civilian calibers, 218 Bee thro' the mighty 50BMG. To scientifically arrive at the optimal crimping force, you need the full input range of 5-75 ft lbs. The CC does this with ONE torque wrench not two wrenches, thus lowering the cost to the reloader.
2. We changed the business end of the torque wrench because we are "levering not twisting". The CC becomes an "active" handle that turns your press into a measuring device. (Quite simply, if one controls the input force, he controls the output force-(after the mechanical advantage of the press)). Our quick release adapter design also allows the reloader to use the CC on multiple presses by the small addition of adapters which may be purchased separately for very little money. Additionally, this quick release adapter allows the reloader to eliminate the "swing weight" of the CC when not crimping or neck sizing.

Yes, one can "do this this at home", but I assure you it will cost you more money, time, and hassle scaring up the parts, torque wrenches and machinist friend. The CC comes ready to use for under 100 bucks with one starter adapter of your choice. In the case of the Lee presses the "Dual Handle Conversion kit is also included."

The main point is that for the first time, the reloader is able to end the scientific process of reloading....with science. The downrange results are quite amazing.

I hope this clears things up a bit.

[WallyM3]

In thinking this through, it seems to me that it wouldn't matter at all whether or not the press was a so called "cam-over" or not. The trigger is a torque level irrespective of the design of the press.

I realize that's a statement, but I'm really looking for is confirmation or refutation.

[Tuckerp229]

Yanda:

Not sure I understand the concept. Could the same thing be accomplished by pulling on the handle with a spring calibrated appropriately? One could buy a lot of springs for $100.

I am not sure what you mean exactly, but the way people question new ideas, I thing spring tension and position would be doubted by many. Plus to properly optimize a load recipe, one must test crimping force in a similar way to testing powder...incrementally. The Micro Clcik torque wrench makes these incremental adjustments a breeze.

As for the cost, I can appreciate the value of 100.00- I still pick up pennies I find on the ground. Torque wrench retail; prices run from 39.95 for some very dubious Harbor Freight products to $350-500 hundred from Snap On. The CC is very high quality, and there is only one step between manufacture and retail which keeps the price down, adjustment range calibrated so that one torque wrench is all the reloader needs for all civilian calibers and finally the quick release adapter to mount it to your press is included.

You may even discover that that box of 5k bullets you shelved 3 years ago because your "gun wouldn't group them", will suddenly become tack drivers when the optimal crimp force has been discovered. This alone would offset the cost of a new tool for you.

[Pepe Ray]

Thank you Tuckerp229.
Do you have an answer to my problem of using the CC with an RCBS Rock Chucker?
Pepe Ray

[PatMarlin]

Thanks for stopping by Tucker.

Like your product. Hopefully we will generate more interest for you here and help accuracy for cast shooters.

Pat

Greetings all. After tracing the sudden activity from Castboolits through Google analytics I decided to make myself available to answer any questions you may have. I am the inventor, patent holder, and manufacturer of the Consistent Crimp. Ask away.


PS. Greetings Sean, it has been a long time!

[PatMarlin]

In thinking this through, it seems to me that it wouldn't matter at all whether or not the press was a so called "cam-over" or not. The trigger is a torque level irrespective of the design of the press.

I realize that's a statement, but I'm really looking for is confirmation or refutation.

I think that once your dies are set to cam-over, the torque measurement will not help. Dies have already done their job, and past the point of setting the press handle force/pressure. Camover is in the setting of your dies. Any press can be set so dies camover.

Maybe I can get a CC for my birthday. Got to start dropping hints around... lol

[Tuckerp229]

In thinking this through, it seems to me that it wouldn't matter at all whether or not the press was a so called "cam-over" or not. The trigger is a torque level irrespective of the design of the press.

I realize that's a statement, but I'm really looking for is confirmation or refutation.

you may notice when inspecting a Lee press, that they have eliminated the "overcam". In a conversation I had with Mr. Lee himself, he told me he doesn't believe overcam capability is necessary and in fact causes a great deal of reloader pain/ trouble. An engineer could better describe the linakge set up of modern double hinged press but in layman's terms, the mechanical advantage reaches theoretical infinity after the cam over. This means that each thousands of ram movement represents 100's maybe thousands of pounds of force acting on what ever is between it and the press bridge. This means that crimping in the cam over stage is completely a guess.

In a world where crimping force will never exceed 365 ft lbs, (after the mechanical advantage of the press), over cam power is simply not needed nor advisable.

By engaging the crimping die before cam over one can be in control of the output after the mechanical advantage by virtue of controlling the input force with the torque wrench. By combining the CC with a Lee Factory Crimp die one maximizes control over the crimping process. The LFCD is in fact why this tool was "born" After purchasing my first FCD I could watch the "work",(scientific def.) being done by the collets as they moved from relaxed to closed, (by the way more work is done after they close as well). I knew a range of "work" was being done here but "how much work". It was odd to me that we as reloaders are asked to be scientific about every step of the reloading process until crimping. At this point we are instructed by the die companies to "put a good crimp on it." What pray tell is a "good crimp" and if I discovered, how could it be returned to after a die swap or a die adjustment? I looked for a way, any way to measure this force knowing that if I could measure it, I could test it at the range just like with grains of powder. This is how we optimize grains of powder for our final load recipe. The CC allows one to optimize crimping force. Once discovered this force can be returned to at will in seconds.

[Tuckerp229]

Interesting idea but out of my price range right now.
see it for folks like benchrest shooters

I love this one. Benchresters will not even talk to me. Apparently they know it all already. You may find it noteworthy that I recommend to all of my CC owners to always use zero crimp for the first row of reloads in a 50 round tray. This I consider the "placebo" group. I have yet to have anyone claim that "zero crimp" out performed some amount of crimp.
A chemical engineer I spoke with at a Gun show explained to me this was true because the crimp...any crimp when compared to zero crimp tends to hold the bullet in the case until a more uniform case pressure after ignition builds up. The bullets are "released from the case at a more uniform pressure and micro second.

Also keep in mind that the Benchrester often used the lands as his "crimp" and they never unload their weapon, they load one and fire one. The rest of us that make up the 98 percent of shooters and hunters often load and unload while hunting or at least load multiple rounds in our gun. Both events can cause bullet/ OAL changes that are not good for safety or accuracy. Remember, all commercial ammo is crimped for a reason. They happen to have million dollar automated machined to dial in what ever crimping force they desire for a given load.

The reality is that the CC is very useful for the average John Q. Reloader who must pull the best results out of less or medium priced components. You will acheive aboce average results even from below average components.

[Tuckerp229]

Thank you Tuckerp229.
Do you have an answer to my problem of using the CC with an RCBS Rock Chucker?
Pepe Ray

My first answer seems to have repeated a different answer to Pat. Here we go again.

Measure your RCBS cast ID where the handle enters the cast linkage. if it is 5/8's click here:

http://www.bulkreloadingsupply.com/r...yle-2-adapter/

By the way the CC may be mounted left or right on any press that has or is converted by us to have two handles.

if is 9/16's click here:

http://www.bulkreloadingsupply.com/r...yle-2-adapter/

[Tuckerp229]

Lee make one. Another gimmick if you ask me.

Well I respectfully disagree that being able to measure instead of guessing is a "gimmick." I view this in the category of "knowledge is power", akin to being able to measure grains of powder.

As for Lee, Mr John Lee actually contacted me personally to inform me of two things:
1. I quote because it was funny: "Sonny, you are missing half of your audience." He then digressed: saying that "he makes the best collet neck sizing die in the world and he prescribes 25 ft lbs of force into the handle to achieve the best neck tension." He then told me "you have the only tool that he knows of that will do just that."
2. Then he stated matter of factly that I should sell his Lee products.

[seanhagerty]

Tucker's product has helped me workup several loads. I would say he has the science all figured out. I just get to use the fruit of his labor.

Here is a link to another load workup I did using the CC. http://ar15armory.com/forums/topic/9...k-up/?hl=crimp

The pictures are lost somewhere, but the data is all there.

Sean

[WallyM3]

"I think that once your dies are set to cam-over, the torque measurement will not help. Dies have already done their job, and past the point of setting the press handle force/pressure. Camover is in the setting of your dies. Any press can be set so dies camover."

I see your point.

Whether intended or not, my Co:Ax's travel stopped at TDC as it came from the factory due to the limit of travel in the linkage. I suspected it in use and checked it with an indicator...I'll be.... My Lyman Jr. shows the same limit stop (at least the one with the 2 piece linkage. So there is at least a small basis for my musings, though upon reflection, it seems that, in any case, the torque handle would be set to break before TDC.

I'm just trying to envision the mechanics involved. I must admit, I'm interested in the notion.

[Love Life]

very interesting indeed.

[Pepe Ray]

Tuckerp229;
Thank you for responding. Evidently you don't know what a "Rock Chucker Press" is.
Your response does make it clear that I'm looking for a solution in the wrong place.
I will find a way to attach the CC to my press because I understand its worth. Since RCBS isn't interested in assisting me I'll need to void any warranty in my press and rely on the skill of my local machinest.
Thanks again for responding.
Pepe Ray

[Tuckerp229]

Tuckerp229;
Thank you for responding. Evidently you don't know what a "Rock Chucker Press" is.
Your response does make it clear that I'm looking for a solution in the wrong place.
I will find a way to attach the CC to my press because I understand its worth. Since RCBS isn't interested in assisting me I'll need to void any warranty in my press and rely on the skill of my local machinest.
Thanks again for responding.
Pepe Ray

Now you really have my interest. Are you able to post a picture of you press?

[Pepe Ray]

Tuckerp;
Here is a link to the only picture I found .
All others are of the RC Supreme.
javascript:;javascript:;Nope Excuse my PC ignorance.
Will try again.
Pepe Ray
http://www.ebay.com/itm/RCBS-Rock-Ch...33.m2042&_trkp

[WallyM3]

Pepe, does it look like this:


or this? (far one)

[Doc Highwall]

Mine look like the one that Pepe posted or the first picture that WallyM3 posted but my handles look more like bicycle handle bar grips with the finger grooves.

[WallyM3]

Doc, apologies for not mentioning that virtually none of my presses have their original handles. The "handlebar (great characterization, BTW)" grip was used during my RC press's time (1972-3), but I didn't find it comfortable in use.

Pepe's posting is of a recent RC with the glossy (I think they call that finish "dormant" in the powder coating trade) finish.

So, you can't rely on pics of my handles to tell anything but that I've been out in the shop turning O-1.

The A2 in the second photo still retains its original handle simply because I haven't gotten to it yet.