Need suggestions for a newbie

[jimmyUT]

Hi everyone! New here and new to reloading 12g.

Currently reloading pistol and rifle and decided to take the plunge into 12g. Still looking for a MEC 600 JR, but in the meantime I picked up my first stash of lead and a Lee4-20 casting pot. Found 140 pounds of ingots for 140 bucks. 100 WW, 20 pure lead and 20 linotype. I am going to try my hand at casting slugs and buckshot. I only have smoothbore 870s to load for and am looking for suggestions on molds and loads to start with. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated and if you could tell me qhy you lime those particular molds and loads for a smoothbore that would be great! Also which of the three leads would be best for this application, or what BHN?

Thanks

Jimmy in Utah

[Garyshome]

Slugs can be difficult, start with buck first. You should really use pure lead/w a little tin not stuff with antimony. Save the antimony stuff for rifle/ WW for pistol. Lee molds are pretty cheap and work well. Good for beginner wallet's. I use Lee stuff. Good deal on the lead!. You should be able to get a Mec for $60-$80 if you shop around. A mec won't load buck, you have to do it by hand, It will load the smaller stuff #9/8/71/2........ That small stuff is hard to cast unless you have a shot dropper, You might want to buy the smaller stuff.

[RMc]

Hard high antimony content pellets are the key to high performance buckshot loads.

[bikerbeans]

Slugs can be difficult.

I find loading slugs to be a lot closer to impossible than difficult, but if they were easy it wouldn't be much of an accomplishment when you get a load that works. Good luck with your shotshell loading.

BB

[Hogtamer]

Might take a look at the results for LR thread where we're shooting slugs @ 100 yds!,,,my best results out of 870 smoothbore have been from 7/8 Lee key drive slugs,,,,again, that's smoothbore. Bikerbeans is having excellent results from different loads out of a rifled gun. RMc is dead on about buckshot, and I've got some great 10 pellet BPI nickel plated OO, but they run small and are very expensive. To duplicate you'd need "O" sized hard cast. My standard is 50 yds though, but for what most folks consider Buckshot range (~25 yds) it doesn't matter IMO, especially out of full choke. Welcome to the BIG LEAD forum! None of those sissy little rifle bullets for us!

[jimmyUT]

Ok. So maybe I start with buck. Normally I shoot 8 or 9 pellet 00.
Any favorite hull/wad combo?
Also what molds are you all using for that?

[turbo1889]

Hard high antimony content pellets are the key to high performance buckshot loads.

+ 1 !!!


With a smooth bore guns, save the hard lead for buckshot and the softer stuff for some of the slugs.

For buck-shot molds your general options are:
----- HM^2 buckshot mold (custom mold maker on this site) if you can get in on one of his runs
----- Lee 18-cavity buck-shot mold
----- Sharp-Shooter buckshot mold
----- smaller sizes 2+ cavity round ball molds (Lee 0.311" & 0.319" cheapest and most popular)

For a newbie though on a limited budget to just get started you might just want to grab up a Lee two cavity mold to start with, takes a lot longer to cast the buckshot casting only two of them at a time but the molds are cheap and work great with no headaches and produce good balls right off with no need to separate strings of balls. HM^2 buckshot molds are about the best out there and the most expensive, both it and the Lee produce chains of balls that you have to separate the balls, the cheaper non-custom Lee 18-cav. buckshot molds don't vent as well and don't fill as easily and are a little harder to separate the balls compared to the HM^2. Sharpshooter buckshot molds are very reasonably priced, but you have to use a pair of snips to separate the balls from the sprue and you have to run them really hot because of their massive aluminum blocks and this means their little wood handles aren't adequate to keep your hands from getting burned with just regular leather gloves. So you either have to cast with them using welding gloves or you have to unscrew the stock handles and screw bigger longer wood blocks on for better handles.

For a newbie just get a cheap two cavity Lee mold to start with and take your time and then move to a real buck-shot mold later on.




As to slugs, I can give you some advice in that area, but I need to know what you want your slug loads to do. What is the best recommendations for a slug mold varies greatly depending on what you want your slug loads to do.

[jimmyUT]

Thanks for the advice on buck. Ill probably stick with the lee 2 cavity to start out with.

As far slugs go, my shotgun shooting is more recreational. We shoot clays with trap and like to mix it up with shooting at bigger stuff with slugs. Mostly within 50 yards. I would also like to load some slugs for my shtf/zombie stash so something accurate enough to hit a paper plate size target at 50y

[turbo1889]

. . . As far slugs go, my shotgun shooting is more recreational. We shoot clays with trap and like to mix it up with shooting at bigger stuff with slugs. Mostly within 50 yards. I would also like to load some slugs for my shtf/zombie stash so something accurate enough to hit a paper plate size target at 50y

0.678" round ball mold, load in-side shot wad with 20ga. nitro card and/or COW (Cream of Wheat (dry)) inside bottom of wad under ball. For what you want your slug loads to do that is your best bet for quickly getting loads that will do what you want and are easy to load and don't take a lot of fiddling with to get right. Also the easiest slug to cast, Lyman molds in that size come up from time to time for reasonable prices ($50-$75). Lee 0.690" round ball mold can also be used same way and is lot cheaper but is just a smidgen too big and normally reduced accuracy compared to slightly smaller 0.678" ball size. Lee slug mold can be used as well but usually had to fiddle around with the loads more to get accuracy out of them compared to just the simple one big round ball of the right size inside wad slug and also much more of a pain to cast and the Lee slug molds wear out fairly quickly especially if you don't baby them.

For the Lyman 0.678" round ball mold check the usual online spots:
----- Track of the Wolf
----- Graphs and Sons
----- Midway USA
----- E-bay
----- Gun Auction sights
----- etc . . .

RCBS also makes ball mold in that 0.678" size but it is usually nearly twice the price. You do not want a "bag ball mold" even though cheap in that size, they have metal handles like a pair of pliers and must wear welding gloves to cast with them, no sprue plate, and are often badly out of round and/or off size.

If you happen to find a slightly larger ball mold (not normal but might happen) up to about 0.683" or so that will work too. 0.678" to 0.683" or so is the "sweet spot" for ball size for a single ball loaded inside most normal shot wads as a slug in the 12ga.

[jimmyUT]

Found the lyman .678

So your saying this wll be more accurate than something like the lyman 525gr sabot slug? The one that looks like a giant air pellet?

[jmort]

"Found the lyman .678 So your saying this wll be more accurate than something like the lyman 525gr sabot slug?"

They would both be good choices in your smoothbore. Eventually you will get a rifled barrel I assume and again, both would work well. There is something way cool about a big round ball and same thing goes for the Lyman 525. You won't regret getting either one.

[turbo1889]

Lyman 525 has the potential to be more accurate then the simple 68-cal. size round ball. But it will take a lot more fiddling with the load and a lot more loads down range to do it. 68-cal. round ball is "plug and play" almost idiot proof, doesn't have quite the top end accuracy potential but you can just throw just about any halfway sensible load together with it and it will usually have at least decent accuracy first ball out the barrel. Not necessary the case with the Lyman 525.

With what you said your looking for in a slug load makes me think it would be the better choice for you. If on the other hand you had said you needed a slug that one load could be fired in multiple guns both smooth bore and rifled slug barrels and you wanted both to be sure that if you shot it through a full choke gun it wouldn't hurt the choke and at the same time wanted to push to 3" group accuracy at 100-yards for deer hunting with a rifled barrel scoped slug gun and wanted one slug to do it all then I would have recommend the Lyman 525 instead and told you that it would take some load development work to get top performance from it out of all those guns and find one load that they all liked. That's not what you asked for. If you had said you wanted a really hard hitting slug for the ultimate in bear hunting loads and you had a rifled slug barrel on a pump gun you were going to use it in then I would have made still another recommendation.

And even then, I'm not the final authority by any means. Ultimately the decision is up to you.

68-cal round ball in a wad as a slug is among the quickest, easiest, and simplest to both cast and load. It's not the top performer for accuracy, but its hard to make a load using it that doesn't have decent accuracy. Pie-plate at 50-yards is decent accuracy. 3" or smaller groups at 100+ yards is top end accuracy for a slug load, didn't sound like you needed that or were willing to spend the time and effort to tweak your loads to produce that level of accuracy and often the slug loads with the greatest accuracy potential also can be the most finicky and take the most TLC in the casting and loading process. Sounds strange but its true, just talk to the guys trying to load true sabot loads (not wad-slugs actual factory type sabot slug loads), either they shoot nice and tight or they throw nasty target board sized patterns and it can be a thin line between the two. The Lyman 525 isn't that bad but it does have some tricks and some idiosyncrasies to it and although it has the potential to produce accuracy levels the round ball in a wad can't match it also isn't too hard to mess it up and produce worse accuracy loads with it. Where as the simpler round ball that isn't as capable on the top end is a lot harder to goof up and make a bad load with.

[jimmyUT]

You make good points and give good advice. I am never afraid to put time into load development. I have spent numerous hours and gone through multiple powders and bullets for my 556 and 308 loads. I actually enjoy load devleopment in rifles so im sure I will in 12g as well. Especially with the added element of casting. That said, I think I am going to get both molds. This way I can have some fun quickly with the round ball and take my time with the sabot.

Again. I appreciate all of the advice. Im sure once I start casting and loading I will have lots more questions

[jimmyUT]

+ 1 !!!


With a smooth bore guns, save the hard lead for buckshot and the softer stuff for some of the slugs.

For buck-shot molds your general options are:
----- HM^2 buckshot mold (custom mold maker on this site) if you can get in on one of his runs
----- Lee 18-cavity buck-shot mold
----- Sharp-Shooter buckshot mold
----- smaller sizes 2+ cavity round ball molds (Lee 0.311" & 0.319" cheapest and most popular)



For a newbie just get a cheap two cavity Lee mold to start with and take your time and then move to a real buck-shot mold later on.



.

HAs anyone compared weight difference between the lee .319 round bal and a .330 Buckshot? Will I still be able to use published 00 Buckshot load data, or will the weight difference require me to alter my load data at all?

Thanks

[jmort]

You use load data by weight. The total weight of all projectiles, so it does not matter what each one weighs, it matters what they all weigh.

[longbow]

What turbo said about round balls but I'll add a bit too.

Depending on wads you will find different fits. Certainly for my Winchester, Claybusters, Pacific Veralite and whatever other more or less "standard" wads I have available, the 0.678" round ball is about the perfect fit and being just over an ounce in pure lead there are a zillion load recipes that can be used, so very convenient.

Then there is the 0.662" round ball which is obviously smaller and weighs exactly 1 ounce in pure lead. It is a bit small for most "standard" wads but fits well in at least some steel shot wads with thick petals and some others (like old Uniwads Hogtamer sent me). It can also be cloth patched. paper or Teflon wrapped, paper wrapped or cross paper patched (lots of options) to fit into standard shotcups and provide custom fit to bore.

These two can be shot through chokes though full choke might be pushing it for 0.678" RB.

Then there is 0.735" RB which is also a standard mould. This one is for cylinder bore only and also works well in rifled barrel. I find best results using a plastic gas seal then hard card wad column.

As turbo says, to 50 yards or so the good 'ol round ball is hard to beat and I generally count on decent loads giving 3" to 5" groups and poor loads somewhere around 6" groups at same range.

Hollow base slugs including Lee have been much harder to get decent groups from and for many getting below 8" groups at 50 yards has been a challenge. For me anyway. Some slugs have done quite well but getting repeatable performance is not so easy so obviously more load tinkering is required.

The round balls do very well, are simple, are easy to cast, easy to load and for 0.662" and 0.678", load recipes abound; and as jmortimer says, big round balls are fun to shoot.

Another mould option is Sharpshooter and jmortimer is about to or just has received his new 0.680" round ball mould. Ask him about it before you go buy something else. This one is multi cavity and the right price.

If you go the round ball route, follow turbo's suggestion on using a 16 or 20 ga. nitro card wad or two under the ball That keeps the wad from trying to wrap around the ball. A scoop of Cream O Wheat on top of that also helps be forming a nice cup seat for the ball... just enough to let the ball sink a little before it touches the nitro card wads. The COW is also handy for setting ball height for crimping but don't use too much.

Longbow

[jimmyUT]

You use load data by weight. The total weight of all projectiles, so it does not matter what each one weighs, it matters what they all weigh.

So in theory, if I had buckshot load data for say 1oz, could I mix some buck and smaller lead shot as long as the weight is still 1oz?

[longbow]

Not sure I can answer positively on that one but my take is that small shot behaves like a fluid expanding out against the bore and creating significant friction against the bore. Slugs of equal weight to shot do not produce as much friction so run at lower pressures... or at least this is a generally accepted rule of thumb.

Not sure exactly how buckshot fits into that being part way between slugs and small shot ~ so somewhat fluid but few points of contact. This may result in less bore friction than small shot.

Without pressure testing equipment or load comparisons between small shot and buckshot for same components and powder (probably not easy to find same components in load recipes) it would be a guess at best. At least I think so.

What should work fine is to use a given small shot recipe then remove some small shot and replace with buckshot of equal weight.

Maybe someone else has some safe load data or knowledge of what happens for this substitution.

Longbow

[turbo1889]

Also, if you have a buckshot load recipe that calls for 9 pellets of OO buck at standard weight and size (0.33" diameter and 54 grains per pellet) and 11 pellets of your home cast 0.311 round ball which is slightly smaller ball size and cast of harder less dense WW alloy weigh the same as the 9 pellets of OO buck and you can get it into a reasonable stack inside the shell in the same load then its a good substitution no problems. Done that one myself.

There are other possibilities as well of course, but if you have buckshot specific load data your working with then you just add up the weight of the pellets it calls for at standard size and weight (charts available for that info from multiple sources including in the index section of many shot loading books) and so long as you match the weight with a slightly different number of a little bit bigger or smaller ball size provided you can get them to stack decent it works not a problem.

And then of course as longbow above mentioned you can use lead shot load data and just match the weight with less of the bigger ball sizes, I do that especially when loading #4 buckshot which is a small enough size of buckshot that you just pore them in and don't try to do any stacking arrangements.

As always its okay to put in one less ball and have slightly lower weight in your load and is preferable to having slightly more weight (as in if you would have to use 15.6 balls of your home-cast buckshot to match the load weight you put in 15 not 16).