Cost of dies

[newcastter]

Not sure if you guys missed it but homeboy wants to drop this subject quick!!!

[IllinoisCoyoteHunter]

Yeah, I guess he thought we were all crazy for paying the price for our swage dies and he was gonna tell us we should be paying much less.

We told him what he didn't want to hear...that they ACTUALLY are worth the cost!

I've got some old Corbin dies I would sell him for $150 each.

[303british.com]

And on or about the same time that Fred Huntington was messing with his dies and "swaging press", a couple of other fellows were developing their own method. Vernon Speer (Speer Bullets) and Joyce Hornady (Hornady Bullet Co.) worked together briefly making bullets made from 22 rimfire cases. Like Huntington, they had difficulties getting bullets, so they made a machine that converted 22LR cases into jackets. Their partnership lasted a year maybe and they split to form their own companies.

They weren't the only ones experimenting with the converting 22LR cases into bullet jackets. Harvey Donaldson, was one of the first people to make dies to make .224 bullets from fired .22 cases. Ted Smith made dies in the 1950s (SAS Dies), and the Corbins bought out his operation when Smith was older and no longer up to the task of making dies. Of course, there were others too.

Standard commercial .224 bullet jackets are .705 inches long - the same length as LR cases whose rims have been unfolded. Since then, companies like Berger and Corbin have made commercial jackets of different lengths for the growing number of .224 bullet weights.

Progress has advanced the method . Frankly, I'm not a fan of the Rockchucker as a bullet press, but it had to start somewhere, right? It's a good reloading press though. Huntington made the right choice when he decided to concentrate on the reloading side and dumped the die manufacturing biz.

Cheap and bullet making are mutually exclusive.

[Garyshome]

Thanks for the low down, Now I don't have to search all over the place to find this stuff!

[Nickle]

303, thanks for that tidbit on Harvey Donaldson.

I knew the man, became somewhat friends with him. He was a fellow benchrest shooter, and experimenter. Great guy.

I met him at a BR shoot in Fasset PA. I went with my father, but didn't shoot competitively yet. He knocked the exhaust loose on his Corvette, I wired it up for him, so it didn't drag on the ground, and he could drive it to get it fixed. He handed me a $20 bill, and I refused it, blowing the cost off. He finally got my father to convince me to take it. I was 12 at the time. Anyways, he was impressed enough with my honesty that we became somewhat friends.

To this day I own a 219 Donaldson Wasp, and use it for competition. It won't be my last, as I have a reamer, and will build more of them.

[newcastter]

303, thanks for that tidbit on Harvey Donaldson.

I knew the man, became somewhat friends with him. He was a fellow benchrest shooter, and experimenter. Great guy.

I met him at a BR shoot in Fasset PA. I went with my father, but didn't shoot competitively yet. He knocked the exhaust loose on his Corvette, I wired it up for him, so it didn't drag on the ground, and he could drive it to get it fixed. He handed me a $20 bill, and I refused it, blowing the cost off. He finally got my father to convince me to take it. I was 12 at the time. Anyways, he was impressed enough with my honesty that we became somewhat friends.

To this day I own a 219 Donaldson Wasp, and use it for competition. It won't be my last, as I have a reamer, and will build more of them.

I love hearing those kind of stories which I am afraid are getting fewer and fewer as the days go on..

[Utah Shooter]

Another interesting thing is that 22lr used to be Copper cases and not Brass. I think they switched to brass somewhere in the mid 1940's. Imagine de rimming Copper.... Perhaps not even having to anneal.

[Nickle]

I love hearing those kind of stories which I am afraid are getting fewer and fewer as the days go on..

Yeah, we're a long ways away from the late 60's, when this was.

Guys like Harvey and Seeley (Masker) are long gone too.

[303british.com]

303, thanks for that tidbit on Harvey Donaldson.

I knew the man, became somewhat friends with him. He was a fellow benchrest shooter, and experimenter. Great guy.

I met him at a BR shoot in Fasset PA. I went with my father, but didn't shoot competitively yet. He knocked the exhaust loose on his Corvette, I wired it up for him, so it didn't drag on the ground, and he could drive it to get it fixed. He handed me a $20 bill, and I refused it, blowing the cost off. He finally got my father to convince me to take it. I was 12 at the time. Anyways, he was impressed enough with my honesty that we became somewhat friends.

To this day I own a 219 Donaldson Wasp, and use it for competition. It won't be my last, as I have a reamer, and will build more of them.

I love hearing those kind of stories which I am afraid are getting fewer and fewer as the days go on..

I like hearing stories too, and humans are story tellers by nature. Before paper and the written language, that's how humans passed along knowledge and history from generation to generation. There's no reason to stop face to face conversations. Unfortunately, we are at the leading edge of the computer bump. It will settle down, but in the mean time our children aren't learning how to be social. When we have to run commercials and have special instructors come into the classroom to talk about how to behave, something has been lost.

As a species, we're less social, but talk more (via things like the Internets, texting, etc.). That's a double edged sword. While it's nice to communicate instantly with someone in Australia or Germany, many don't get out and talk with their neighbours as much. Younger generations - basically anyone under 40 - have less refined social skills. Facebook and webboards aren't the same. Unfortunately, it will take a few more years before we're sitting face to face with others again. It will happen, but not soon enough for me.

[Nickle]

303, that is soooo true.

"Social networking" is an oxymoron.

[Pavogrande]

Attachment 93398Attachment 93399Attachment 93400Attachment 93401Attachment 93402Attachment 93403Attachment 93404Attachment 93405
an early set of fred's dies -- don't think they could be duplicated at a thosand dollars -

[Dave18]

but I just think there is coming a time when we won't be able to buy primers, powder, or bullets. I like being self reliant that way, I guess I'm just strange.

$1000 is a bargain when projectiles become priceless.

which is why others are learning to cast and look at swaging ect,

I don't think its strange, its being realistic to what we see happening around us

[fredj338]

Well I know for a fact RCBS or whom ever won't make you a custom set of dies for say a wildcat round for less than $100-$150. There may also be a setup fee. SO call it $200 for 2-dies & say a shell holder. So $1000 for a full set fo swaging dies, base bunches, etc, seems expensive but reasonable for all the hand work that must be done. If it were easy, I could do it myself but then it isn't easy, so you are paying for the machinist skill & knowledge.

[Idaho Sharpshooter]

Back when I wrote for Precision Shooting Magazine (1988-2001), likely the most famous bullet die maker in the world Ferris Pindell (the second "P" in 6PPC) was charging roughly a thousand dollars to make a set of J-bullet dies. That was about 1990-91 when I met both the "P's" at the Super Shoot. He made most of the dies for Sierra for many years. With swaged here, you add the cost of a core die as well. He figured he had close to a hundred hours making a single set at a time for someone. Back then, only serious BR shooters took the time and expense of shooting their own bullets.

It ain't the easiest way to get rich...

Rich

[Nickle]

Hee Hee, I'll let most of you in for some shocking info.

$1000 for a die set? That's pretty cheap, when you come down to it.

I know, you're thinking Nickle has gone nuts.

But, have I?

Priced up Rorschach, Detsch or Niemi dies lately?

I don't know Detsch. I hear he's a good guy.

I do know Bill Niemi. I haven't talked to him in years, but he is a good guy. I don't know if he's still alive, but I think his son Brian is, though. Another real good guy.

Rorschach? Well, they're kind of lengdary aren't they?

Those 3 are all carbide dies. They cost a few thousand a set.

Yup, lots of hours into making a set of dies, unlike reloading dies.

[Cane_man]

and making the dies as a hobby is just plain fun... but i can see how doing it as a business would take the fun out of it and i am sure you would end up making about $3.75 per hour when it is all said and done...

[Prospector Howard]

I'm wondering if the cost of liablity insurance for the die manufacturers wouldn't add to the cost also. An LLC will help, but in this sue happy world we live in; I'd imagine most of the bigger companies also have insurance for the dummy that tries to blame the die maker if he blows up his gun.

[aaronraad]

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an early set of fred's dies -- don't think they could be duplicated at a thosand dollars -

Sorry to interrupt your thread

Do they split at the ogive?

[Pavogrande]

aaronraad --
yes, it appears that they do -- I have not actually used them yet - Need to make a ram -
I reckon it will be a slooow process.

[marten]

Only make dies for myself now, amazing how little someone else's time is valued!
As has been noted earlier, the time spent polishing will always be a pain plus when a die gets buggered during heat treat...
One thing not to forget is the time in making reamers that can be a time drain too!