Cast the new alternative to .22LR

[dtknowles]

I don't think it is fair to not count the cost of lead when calculating the cost of replacement ammo even if you get the lead for free since you can sell it for a dollar a pound. It does not change the analysis much since the bullets we are talking about only use a penny or two of lead.

Tim

[georgerkahn]

I stopped at a gun shop yesterday, where i was told they have absolutely no rim-fire ammunition for sale in any caliber or configuration, as he "needs save the wee amount he has to offer to customers when they purchase from him a firearm that shoots it". Does this make sense? If I was to buy a .22 long rifle rifle, and assuming Scott (store owner) sold me two boxes of ammo with the firearm... that's all I'd be able to shoot? Not pressing the issue, I inquired re primers, and he did have a bit on the shelf -- with a 1/2-box maximum per customer limit. I purchased the 1/2-box ($20.00). But, back to your experience re the rim-fires -- how are manufacturers expecting to sell new firearms if one can buy no ammo for it after the feeble amount permitted with the sale? As a hunter safety instructor, I used to stress, stress, and stress more that each and every "graduate" purchase and shoot at least a full brick of .22 ammo before they even think about going into the woods to hunt...

[part_timer]

I stopped at a gun shop yesterday, where i was told they have absolutely no rim-fire ammunition for sale in any caliber or configuration, as he "needs save the wee amount he has to offer to customers when they purchase from him a firearm that shoots it". Does this make sense? If I was to buy a .22 long rifle rifle, and assuming Scott (store owner) sold me two boxes of ammo with the firearm... that's all I'd be able to shoot? ...

Just my .02 but it does make sense to me. Our local GS has ammo on the shelf that anyone can purchase while it is out there and a stash in the back that can be purchased with a new gun. It's hard to sell guns with no ammo, not everyone reloads.

[rexherring]

I've seen the 9mm, 40, and .45 carbines but I have a ton of .380's and would love to plink with those. I may still have to get a .45 carbine because I also have a bunch of them too.

[fredj338]

Ive seen two of the 10/22 rifles converted to center fire...one was made to 25 ACP, and the other 32 ACP

My equip cost were amortized out years ago. So I do NOT figure it into cost of production of ammo or lead bullets. I also never figure my time, it is a hobby, butat least with reloading on a progressive, it's like paying myself to make ammo @ 700rds/hr.

[Dan Cash]

I just tallied it up this morning , 3.5 Unique and 55gr in the 222 I'm picking up next week comes out $40/1000 . The 7RWH (7x6.8 Rem) shoots about the same w/a 130. 00B for the 30s and 0000 for 9 and 38.At $50 /1000 I get hobby time and I'm 10 bucks ahead.

Say what? You don't make any sense.

[35remington]

Stating that you make money reloading doesn't make sense, no. Producing something for your own consumption always has a cost of production, not a profit, because you're not selling it.

I've always said handloaders never took Econ 101, and if they did they would fail it miserably.

[Chev. William]

Most Reloaders who do it for their own use treat it as a HOBBY PASSTIME for the quiet pleasure and to maintain their 'homelife'. If you are reloading the 'wife' knows where you are and does not worry you might be 'getting into trouble' somewhere she does not know of. She also usually will let you be unless something Needs Doing tha tshe needs you help with.
These are Economic benefits that are also NOT Calculated by Monetary Values.
Just mu y two cents,
Best Regards,
Chev. William

[gewing]

My 22rf centre fire substitute is the 310 Cadet.

3 gns of fast pistol powder and a 120 gn boolit.

What bullet are you using? My dad has had difficulty finding bullets for the actual .320 bore.

[dromia]

Welcome to Cast Boolits gewing.

It is from an Accurate mould that Tom cut for me based on a Lee GB design we did here a few years ago.

It is now a catalogue design at Accurate and Tom will cut the mould to any size you want.

http://www.accuratemolds.com/bullet_...=32-120C-D.png

[P.J.Plinkerton]

Quote Originally Posted by Blammer View Post

I'm thinking a levergun in 25acp will be the new 22lr, and you can reload it.

That would actually be awesome.

+1
I've often entertained the idea of converting say a Henry 22mag to centerfire and re-barreling (the 22mag and 25acp rims are close enough to make the bolt face and extractor less of an issue).

P.J.

[Digital Dan]

I'm thinking the idea of converting any lever gun originally intended for rimmed cases is going to be cost prohibitive for two reasons. One, they do not have the bolt face geometry to accept a larger CF round, even a .25 ACP and two, the extraction is going to be a bit of a challenge. There's nothing wrong with the basic idea but there might be better platforms and cartridges to focus one's attention on. The Ruger 77/22H comes to mind as do a number of old and recent production guns that shoot the .25-20 Win. Any of the T/C Contender frames are suitable for conversion to a rifle and barrels are readily available for both chambers. OR, one can have any small cap case or wildcat cut to the same end.

Some years back I purchased a copy of Ken Howell's book, "Designing and Forming Cartridge Cases" (as I recall) and there was some excellent advise within on this issue. In paraphrase form he said that resurrecting old cartridges and guns was a fine pursuit, up until the endeavor required "heroic" measures. The same is true here in this discussion. Put another way, the idea of building an alternative for the .22 RF is a good one, but a very large amount of the foundation has been laid. Small caliber/capacity cases exist that are available today. Take the path of least resistance is my advice.

[Shiloh]

I shoot a 9mm and .38 cheaper than .22's

Shiloh

[Garyshome]

It's sad when i can shoot 9mm for the same price as 22. Also I picked up an air rifle, pellets are cheap and available.

[bangerjim]

In talking to my LGS's, they are selling 22LR pistoles, AR-wanna-be's, and long guns like hotcakes!!!!!! Yet there is no ammo. People are stupid.

Some stores have VERY expensive high-end 22's but at almost 10 cents a round....limit 100!

Again.......people are stupid.......stupid.......stupid.

My rule..........own and shoot ONLY what I can reload!

ALL my 22lr guns are neetly stored away for (at this rate) some future generation!!!!!!!


bangerjim

[fredj338]

Stating that you make money reloading doesn't make sense, no. Producing something for your own consumption always has a cost of production, not a profit, because you're not selling it.

I've always said handloaders never took Econ 101, and if they did they would fail it miserably.

Semantics maybe, but I don;t have to sell something to make $$. At 700rds/hr, I save a min of $15/100 on 45acp as an example. So I would have to make $175 for that hour gross to buy the same equiv of factory ammo. No I have not made that $105 but saved it. So econ 101 or not, it's one way to look at reloading. I would have to make $175/hr to net the $105/hr I saved reloading my own. Yeah, I don't get the economics of that.

[Chev. William]

Quote Originally Posted by Blammer View Post

I'm thinking a levergun in 25acp will be the new 22lr, and you can reload it.

+1
I've often entertained the idea of converting say a Henry 22mag to centerfire and re-barreling (the 22mag and 25acp rims are close enough to make the bolt face and extractor less of an issue).

P.J.

The .22 WMR rim is .294" and the .25ACP rim is .302". The body diameters are more of a problem I would think but they would be addressed in the cutting of the chamber. You would need a new barrel, Lothar Walther lists a 23.4" long 6.35mm Browning (.25ACP) Pistol Barrel blank that would make a nice one, I bought one to use on a Marlin 'Levermatic' conversion I am gathering parts for. I already have a bolt (converted from 256 Mag. Model 62 bolt) that is CF and ready to switch into the Model 56 Action. I also have a 'donor' model 56 already with serial number, to use when I get a magazine made to fit the new cartridge. IF you use a Tube Magazine rifle remember to reload your .25ACPs with a bullet with a flat nose such as the 'Ranch Dog' .25ACP 50grain one sold by Carolina Cast Bullets so the nose of one cartridge does not fire the others in the Tube magazine by accident. You could also use the Hornady 35grain Hollow points safely.
As an added note, you probably will need to get some type of cartridge length adaption (such as the Winchester pump 1890/1906 series had for 22 Short, Long, and Long rifle interchange) for the tube magazine cartridge lifter if you want to shoot various cartridge lengths, such as the short 35 grain HP and then the 50 grain RFN as the Over All Length is slightly different.
The Model 56 and the model 62 Marlins are Vertical stack magazine fed so bullet nose is less of a problem.
Otherwise it sounds like you will have a good time with your conversion rifle and be able to reload to feed it cheaply, complements of the 'in line BP Muzzleloader use of .25ACP cases for ignition, they increased demand enough so Magtech is selling .25ACP empties in 100 case bags.
Best Regards,
Chev. William

[Chev. William]

Digital Dan,
The .25ACP is a Semi-rim design and does have a protruding rim so conversion is not as hard as you think.
Just for Grins, a .25ACP will chamber in a .25 Stevens rifle. From what measurements I have made the Head space would be safe to fire, the rifle just needs conversion from RF to CF.
Yes, the Action should be of a stronger style or Upgraded to take the difference in pressures (the .25 Stevens was an early Smokeless and BP loaded round).
Best Regards,
Chev. William

[Digital Dan]

Oh I don't think it impossible just that it might require more effort than necessary. Though I've not fooled with it late I did a great deal of work with the .22 Hornet some years ago. Ruger #1 that digested loads in the range of 1100-1200 fps with repeatable sub 1/2" groups of 5 shots using 40 grain J Bullets and some 45 cast purchased from whom I do not recall. It was a very simple excursion and duplicated .22 RF performance quite well.

More recently I've done a similar thing with the .25-20 using the Lyman bullet of about 70 gr supplied by a friend. Don't recall the mould #. Also have used the Ideal 257283 with similar results in a Marlin 1894 built back in the '30s. Critters aren't safe from that one either as it will group 10 in 1.5" at 50 from a rest

My point goes to the fact that replicating RF ballistics need not be a complex undertaking. If inclined the dedicate a gun to that task I would not take heroic measures just because I could.

[35remington]

Smiling at the comparison a bit.

Fred, you can crank away at the press all afternoon and there won't be anything to pay the bills. Don't quit your regular job to "make" money reloading.