7.7 Arisaka Cast Boolit Loads in Reformed 8X57 Brass?

[leadman]

I may buy a 7.7 Arisaka this afternoon. I have been searching the web for brass and found some pricey Norma stuff that I really do not want to buy. Can't seem to find any PPU.
I do know that any of the 30-06 based cases are small in the base but with light charges of Unique I am thinking it might be ok.
Has anyone used 30-06 based brass in one of these rifles sucessfully?

[khmer6]

Not that I can answer your question but if you can get it for a good deal snag one! I picked one up in 6.5x257 with a refinished stock. Someone had cared for it and converted prior. For a 100 bucks it was well worth my gamble

[Larry Gibson]

'06 based cases are the most common cases for conversion to 7.7 Jap and other milsurp cartridges. I and many, many others have used them. Most 8x57 cases when formed to 7.7 Jap will be a bit short in the neck. Using '06 cases when forming to 7.7 are best because you can adjust the case headspace to fit the chamber headspace perfectly AND you can trim the necks to fit your rifles chamber necks instead of using a "one size fit's all" length. Cases made as such are much better for cast bullet loads.

Larry Gibson

[3006guns]

Just a tip........the original Norma 6.5 Jap brass (bear with me) was a bit too small at the base. Upon firing, a large bulge would appear on one side as the case was being shoved over by the extractor. This oddity caused a lot of the type 38 rifles to be called "unsafe" when in fact it was an ammunition quirk (I understand that Norma has finally corrected the problem). The fix was to wrap an 1/8" wide strip of Scotch tape around the base which would keep it centered when fired, then you removed the tape. Although you still had a bulge, it was evenly centered around the base so it didn't put all of the strain on one side. You neck sized your brass from then on and all was right with the world.

We have a similar situation with the 7.7 when using 30-06 brass, i.e., the base is something like .020" smaller than the Japanese round. Seems to me you could use the same tape stunt with your initial load and end up with uniform brass that can be loaded numerous times.

[azrednek]

I have reformed hundreds of 30/06 brass to 7.7 Jap. The only problem after being mis-led by a gunshow vendor. I reformed a bunch of Canadian 06 blanks later discovering the blanks had corrosive primers. A handful corroded from the inside out. I was forced to pull the slugs and start over with non corrosive primers. I traded my Jap collection about a year ago along with the reformed brass. I used the brass for numerous reloads over a period of 10 years. Most were annealed on the 2nd or 3rd reload. A very small percentage, maybe 5% max. The necks cracked. After annealing I don't recall a split neck. I used the same brass to form 7X57, 765 Argie and 8X57. I also did some into 308, 22/250 and 243 just to see if it could be done.

You will have problems with mild charges. Use 90% of max to force the brass tightly against the chamber wall and shoulder area especially. With mild charges you will likely get some blow-by, by the shoulder. I used 90% of a published load of IMR 4350.

[leadman]

I have used the tape trick on some oversized chambers before and it works. The reason I was inquiring about 8 X 57 is I have a good amount of it and no gun for it and don't want to use my 30-06 for this rifle. A little short in the neck may not hurt anything but shooting will tell.
I have reformed some 45-70 for use in my 8 X 58RD and it works well with the long Karabiner boolit even though it is short.
If I have to I will use a longer case and reform the 8 X 57 to either 7 X 57 or 7.65 X 54 Arg.

[3006guns]

I have used the tape trick on some oversized chambers before and it works. The reason I was inquiring about 8 X 57 is I have a good amount of it and no gun for it and don't want to use my 30-06 for this rifle. A little short in the neck may not hurt anything but shooting will tell.
I have reformed some 45-70 for use in my 8 X 58RD and it works well with the long Karabiner boolit even though it is short.
If I have to I will use a longer case and reform the 8 X 57 to either 7 X 57 or 7.65 X 54 Arg.

You're right, the short neck should not give you any problems. I make 6.5 Jap from 35 Remington which results in a short neck, shoots fine. Enjoy your rifle...they can be great shooters.

[psj12]

I make 7.7 brass from 30-06.
When shooting Hornady .312 150 gr. Spire point J boolits (most accurate in my rifle) I have needed to ream the neck because as you push the shoulder back on the 06 brass it gets too thick in the lower portion of the neck. After forming and trimming the brass I neck size only using a old lee loader (the kind where you drive it in with a mallet). This puts the over thickness to the inside of the neck. I then use a .311 hand reamer to remove the excess brass. You will probably have no issues if you use .311 bullets but .312 bullets will greatly improve accuracy.

[jonk]

I've used both 8X57 and 30-06, as well as a few .280s and .270s to make 7.7 jap. No issues with any of them. The bulged base thing kind of depends on your chamber. I got lucky, mine didn't require tape. I have had other guns that did though.

[leadman]

I did buy the old gun last night. It has defenitely seen better days. Has quite a bit of surface rust but the chamber looks relatively free of rust. The rifling at the muzzle looks worn so may have to do some work there. Will take some pics soon before starting work on it.
Am going to slug the bore so I can get an idea of bore and muzzle size. I'll do a chamber cast also if my buddy gets my Cerrosafe back to me soon.

[leadman]

I slugged the bore with a few 8mm Lyman 160gr pure lead boolits. The throat is almost .316" while the muzzle is .3145". Seemed pretty smooth all the way thru the bore. I think if I put a 4th coat of Hi-Tek coating on the 314299 or the Lee 312-160-2R I can make one of them work. Also might try a couple wraps of the teflon plumbers tape.
I made some brass today out of some 270 and 30-06, along with the 8X57. The shoulder of the 8X57 will need to be blown forward a bit so will use some odd headstamps of my 30-06 instead.
Now I need to disassemble it and clean and oil it. I would like to find another military stock since the barrel is not cut. Might raise the value slightly. Just have to keep my eyes open I guess.

[Janoosh]

Not that bad looking....Is there a mum on top of the chamber? Chrome bore? Look for a bright ring on the muzzle.

[Eddie2002]

I've been reforming 30-06 brass for two 7.7 Japs with no problems. I would recommend anealing the brass before resizing it, it just makes the job go easier. I aneal the brass then run it through the die to get the shoulder moved down, trim a little long and then resize a second time to get the shoulder moved down to the right length. After that trim a second time and chamfer the brass. I've found that some brass bulges at the base more than other brands. The best I've found so far is some 30-06 military brass but use what you have and just keep an eye on it. Worn bores are common with some 7.7's, one of mine slugs at .312 at the muzzle back to about eight inches in front of the chamber. From there back it slugs at .314 and bigger. I agree with azrednek about anealling the brass after 3-4 reloads, same thing happened to me that happened to him. After 3-4 reloads I started to have cracks appear in the shoulders of about 5% of my brass, didn't matter if they were reformed 30-06 or some Norma 7.7 brass, both had problems. Expected to find cracks in the neck but most of the brass that split went on the shoulder. Glad I was wearing shooting glasses with one round, the vent on top of the chamber let out some pressure and tickled my cheek if you get my meaning.

[30CAL-TEXAN]

I form 7.7 from 30-06 with no problems as well.

Like mentioned above I think it really just depends on the chamber and what you are willing to do to achieve results.

It will be a fun project any way you decide to go.

[leadman]

Mum is ground, bore appears to be chromed, the bolt face is chromed. I used my 7.65 Arg trim die to form the brass, worked really nice.
I read an article on a surplus guns forum and the guy used a .311" boolit in a .314" bore with grex shotgun buffer. His groups were ok but it got me to thinking I can do the same with poly-fil. I use 3 grs of poly-fil in my 71 Mauser with a 300gr Lee 45cal pistol boolet and 20grs of 2400. It shoots very well with about 3" groups at 100 yards.

If anyone knows where there is an uncut stock hiding I would appreciate a heads up.

[Eddie2002]

Been shooting a .311 100 grain cast bullet in my 7.7's over 6 grains of bullseye for 50yd plinkers with success. No gas check and am loading them as they drop from the mould. Getting a 2 inch pattern with a flier or two but still a lot of fun.
Try Gunbroker.com or fleabay for a stock, you would also need the front band, screws and top piece of wood for your project.

[jonk]

Another thought: An 8mm trim die works wonders. Screw it in to the shell holder, then back off one full turn- then run the 06 case into it, and cut/file off the end. FL size, and trim in your trimmer of choice.

By doing it this way, you end up with an almost perfect length case.

[azrednek]

Another thought: An 8mm trim die works wonders.

By doing it this way, you end up with an almost perfect length case.

I'm in total agreement. I obtained my 8MM trim and form die after I had already formed my 7.7 Jap brass but did a few 7.7's and 7.65's after I got the trim die. Still have to run the brass into a 7.7 full length sizing die and give it a final trim and chamfering but the 8X57 trim die gave me a great head start. Hack sawing off the excess brass is much easier than in a trimmer. Wish I had had it previously when I did a few hundred each of 7.7 and 7.65.

A few years ago I bid on a 7.7 trim and form die on Ebay. It went for way more than I was willing to pay. I can't remember the exact price but it went for over 50 bucks. 7.65 trim dies appear occasionally on Ebay but don't go for anywhere near as ridiculously as the 7.7 did.

[leadman]

I lucked out yesterday and bought another Arisaka for $75! The firing pin spring, safety, and buttplate are missing but the gun is still in military configuration. Of course the receiver cover and monopod are also gone but not real interested in them.
I switched the stock to my sporter along with the trigger guard since the original on the sporter was drilled and tapped and had a sling swivel on it.
I may turn the remaining parts into a sporterized truck gun. Thinking on chopping the barrel back and installing another front sight and a receiver sight at the rear. I'll get it together again and shoot it then decide what to do with it.

[dualsport]

Congratulations on your new toys. I have fun resurrecting dirt cheap milsurps to shooters. Have a few Japs. I don't worry too much about value, they go cheap unless pretty special. I'd like to hear more about using a 7.65x53 Arg. 'form and trim die' to make 7.7 Jap brass. Never thought of it but if it works I'm all set. Also, more Jap pictures, please. These things interest me.