.454 Lever Guns

[OnHoPr]

http://www.bighornarmory.com/catalog...-89-carbine-2/

454PB: and as you know, recoil is relative depending on your experience.

That 500 S&W should be a pretty good prairie dog shooter.

[snaketail]

This thread just reach the point where the original question has been lost.
Get a Rossi Stainless Steel .454, its a fun gun to shoot. You can use .45 S&W Schofield, .45 Colt and .454 Casull. Just like Short, Long and Long Rifle.
M

[tygar]

I didn't know they were the same company. Did Rossi just buy out Legacy or is their a lineal line of the manufacturing & ownership?

I know that the gunsmith in Alexandria, VA was the warranty guy & the company name that did the importing was Interarms & that's who he worked for.

I actually want a short barrel. 16-18 would be preferred but would take the 20 & maybe cut it, actually I just was thinking that one with a long barrel would be interesting to try & see what kind of distance accuracy it would have.

I might get one just to put a 24" brl on it after seeing how the short barrel does.

What are the options for putting a Ghost ring/peep site on them?

Absolutely need one as I can't focus with standard iron sites.
Thanks

[tygar]

.454 Lever Guns

Since the thread has reached the point where the original question is lost, here is the question.

Hi, I was looking for input from people that have a .454 Lever Gun. Which one, how good they are, that bullets/loads you are using & IF anyone has made a .460 S&W out of one or conversely, has anyone made a .454 out of a .45 Colt gun?

Thanks
Tom

In response to the below responses. Thanks but...

"OK I guess I'll say this again!

I WANT THE .454!

It is a given that I will get this. Don't care about the others. I have them, I load for them, I currently have 6 or 8 BIG 40 cal rifles. If they made a .500 S&W in one of these levers I would get that. I want the hot pistol cartridge in a lever action rifle.

That is the purpose of this post.

Input on that cartridge (.454) in a lever gun & bullet wts, loads etc. is what I am looking for.

Thanks, hope that makes it clear. "

[joec]

I want the .454, "just because". As I said I have lots of boomers, currently up to 450 Watts, which is very close to .460 Weatherby & have had several .460s & .470s, so recoil is not a problem.

As I said before there was another company that made the .454 & I just remembered who - Legacy/Puma. Their import office was in Alexandria, VA & a long time ago I called & talked to their gunsmith who did say that I could, in fact, make it into a .460. They had done it & the gun could handle it. So, I guess I need to find one of them.

The question I also wondered about was what bullet is the best for the rifle. I have always preferred the 260 & 300 in my pistols since this is what Dick Casull told me are best back in the 80s & have been using them to good effect since then. His load was all the H110 you could stuff in it & still crimp the bullet.

But today there are lots of new powders & others may work better in the rifle & also bigger bullets may work better, & since I am new to pistol bullets in rifles I thought I'd ask you experts.

So, appreciate the input, keep it up, I can use all I can get.

I'm with you and wanted a 454 Casull lever gun also. However as was pointed out the only one made is Rossi though the 460 will fire the 454. I have three rossi rifles a 45 Colt, 454 Casull and a Rio Grande in 45-70. Now the Casull also shoots the 45 Colt round also though for me the Rossi 92 due to the stock isn't legal for NCOWS events for me so I use the 92 45 Colt for that. I hunt with all 3 though as each work well for pigs up to deer. Anything bigger it is time for the 454 and 45-70.

As for bullets I'm using several in cast and jacketed by several makers with a 330 gr gas checked mold due in from Ranch Dog for my 454. I haven't shot any less than 260 or greater than 300 grs to date. I also have the Taurus Raging Bull in 454 and love that gun.

[tygar]

I also "absolutely" love my RB! Have 3 RBs, gave a 6" to my son in AK to carry when he's out on the trails. All he had was a 44Mag. Last time I was home I took up my .500 S&W which I had him shoot & he liked it so maybe he'll get 1 also.

Back to the .454s. I got my first back in 84-85, a Freedom Arms. Have had several over the years. They are well made but I don't like the grip & the single action. When Ruger came out with the Super RH .454 I bought one & have had several, still have 1 in .454 & 1 in .480. When Taurus came out I tried one & have basically abandoned all the others. It shoots better, feels better, & has far less felt recoil. I carry a 5" when in the brush & hunt with an 8". I will say that I still shoot the Ruger sometimes when I am testing really hot loads. They are pretty hard to break.

When I had the FA's I bought a bunch of his 260s & 300 bullets plus quite a bit of loaded ammo, & am just now getting down to the last boxes of them. So for the most part am still using FA brass.

I have shot .45 LC bullets in the .454, 250HPs & solids etc but they are nothing special when shot in .454.

I figured if I can get in the 2200+ range with the 300 FA or HC bullets it would probably be OK for griz, especially with 10 or them. Since I carried a pistol with 300s at 1900 for over 20 yrs as backup or when fishing in AK I think I'd be pretty confident in it as a plane, boat or ATV gun.

[rintinglen]

Rossi made the Pumas. Legacy was the importer. I had a 16 inch carbine in 357 but did not like the "John Wayne" lever. Now I have the 20 inch regular old 92 clone.

I have shot the 454 Stainless Rossi and had pretty fair results with a Lee 350 grain 45/70 boolit sized down to .452 over 23 grains of H-110. Had to finagle the OAL to get it to work, but my friend who owned the gun was dead set on carrying it for wilderness protection against big bears.

[tygar]

I'm just the opposite. I put the "big loop" lever on my Marlin. My hands are big & those small levers hurt in the big bores. I actually would put some tape with some rubber padding on my third finger when shooting my big double rifles because I just killed my middle finger from the trigger guard.

Just last night I sized down some .458 300s & 325s to try in my Cassul's. I also got out an old S&W M25 I have had forever & slugged it & loaded some of the 300s to try along with some 240s & 250s.

I was surprised but it slugged just at or a hair under .452. I remember some others I had that you had to use .454 bullets to get it to shoot.

Made a lowball offer on a new Rossi .454 but the guy hasn't answered.
Tom

[John in AR]

I have the 20" stainless puma in .454 and love the stupid thing. I mostly use .45LC's in it, but my most-used .454 load is 37.8 WW296 on a 240 XTP-Mag runs 2430 fps, or more than 3,100 ft/lbs of energy.

Other load results with it are as follows:

.45LC
Corbon 265 +p - 1770 fps
Corbon 335 +p - 922 fps


.454 loads:
Winchester 'medium' 250 jhp - 1660 fps
Winchester 260 Partition - 1507 fps
Hornady 300 XTP-Mag - 1375 fps

It really surprised me to find that with a lot of loads, the little 20" levergun is actually putting out more power than a .30-06, and with some loads, even more power than a .300 WinMag does. Within its distance limitations, there's not a game animal in north america that it can't take; from full-power loads for bear, moose, etc, down to light LC loads for pot animals like rabbit. I have numerous pistol-caliber and magnum-pistol-caliber carbines, but that .454 levergun is far and away the most versatile of any carbine I own; and possibly the most versatile long gun, period, that I own.


(Main issue was finding a front sling mount. With the .45 caliber cartridges inside a dual-walled tube like that, it makes for a fat magazine. Whipped out the calipers and it turns out that a mag-tube mount for a 16-gauge shotgun fit perfectly.)

[454PB]

37.8 grain of Bullseye with a 240 grain bullet?

Something is wrong here......

[John in AR]

37.8 grain of Bullseye with a 240 grain bullet?

Something is wrong here......

Holy carp - 37.8 of 296, not bullseye. That'd get somebody killed. I'll correct above; thanks.

[rbuck351]

I have a 20" blued LSI PUMA in 454 and I cast the Lee 300gr (actual 317gr) with wcww. It had the safety but I took it off and made a peep sight replacement . I'm loading 31grs of Lil Gun for about 1980fps. There's probably room for a couple more grs of powder. I haven't actually benched it but from kneeling at 100yds with my 65yr old eyes it's easy paper plate accurate.

[singleshot]

If they made a .500 S&W in one of these levers I would get that. I want the hot pistol cartridge in a lever action rifle.

They do! Here you go!!!! www.bighornarmory.com


EDIT: Oooops! I see this has already been addressed. I was just looking at a bighorn the other day...

[rockrat]

Ruger made a #1 in 460 S&W

[John Boy]

The Rossi, originally made and owned by Armando Rossi sold his company in Brazil to LSI. LSI in turn renamed the Rossi '92 ... Puma. They are the same for fit to finish & accuracy except the Puma now has the safety selector on top of the receiver. I own both, a 2001 "Rossi" that was distributed by EMF in 45 Colt and a 2009 "Puma" 45 Colt now distributed by LSI which are replicas of the Winchester Model 92 lever action rifle invented by John Browning

You keep shouting I WANT THE .454! which by the way is totally obnoxious!
Friend, there is no 454 caliber lever rifle because a 454 is one of the bullet diameters for a 45 Colt, ie... the original Ideal 454190 bullet that weighs 260grs in addition to others in a 452 diameter. And out of my 45 Colt Rossi & Puma, I shot probably a ton of these 454 diameter bullets with the 454190 bullet in 45 Colt brass. In addition, I have shot many 454 diameter Casull 300 gr bullets out of the '92 Winchester Colt 45 Rossi & Puma in 45 Colt brass also - plus in addition to other 45 Colt rifles
So to answer your I WANT THE .454! shout ... buy any 45 Colt rifle to your liking because there is no rifle marketed as a 454 lever gun! Got it?

[Dogg]

Wrong, unless the 3 puma and rossi 92s I have that are marked 454Casull don't know there aren't any 454s.
454 Casull is what he is looking for! And the other 6 rossi 92s I have marked 45 colt just never grew up to the point they could digest the 454 casull.
Dogg

[Dogg]

There are presently 5 rossi 92s in 454 casull listed on Gun Broker and 1 on Guns America.

[starmac]

I'm thinking he meant to say, there are no 460 lever guns, just had 454 on the brain. lol

[tbhutton]

Want a picture of one of mine? It sure says 454 Casull on it ...

[tygar]

I have the 20" stainless puma in .454 and love the stupid thing. I mostly use .45LC's in it, but my most-used .454 load is 37.8 WW296 on a 240 XTP-Mag runs 2430 fps, or more than 3,100 ft/lbs of energy.

Other load results with it are as follows:

.45LC
Corbon 265 +p - 1770 fps
Corbon 335 +p - 922 fps


.454 loads:
Winchester 'medium' 250 jhp - 1660 fps
Winchester 260 Partition - 1507 fps
Hornady 300 XTP-Mag - 1375 fps

It really surprised me to find that with a lot of loads, the little 20" levergun is actually putting out more power than a .30-06, and with some loads, even more power than a .300 WinMag does. Within its distance limitations, there's not a game animal in north america that it can't take; from full-power loads for bear, moose, etc, down to light LC loads for pot animals like rabbit. I have numerous pistol-caliber and magnum-pistol-caliber carbines, but that .454 levergun is far and away the most versatile of any carbine I own; and possibly the most versatile long gun, period, that I own.


(Main issue was finding a front sling mount. With the .45 caliber cartridges inside a dual-walled tube like that, it makes for a fat magazine. Whipped out the calipers and it turns out that a mag-tube mount for a 16-gauge shotgun fit perfectly.)

Finally got a .454. Ordered it from Davidson's yesterday, should be in next week.

Talked to my gunsmith & getting the cleaning & polishing internals, receiver ghost ring site, bigger/higher front site, big loop lever lined up.

Loading up a bunch of az kickers to break it in & see how it goes.

Will try "all" the loads you all recommended plus my old FAs load, fill it with H110 until you can just crimp the bullet. (I will build up to it, at least a little bit) (definitely will not use 37.8 grs of Bullseye)

Looking forward to it.