Fluxing with bees wax

[capt.hollis]

Can I only flux with bees wax, and be successful ?
I hear to use saw dust, etc, but the wax seems to work well enough for me or I'm getting lucky ?

[btroj]

It will reduce oxides back into the melt but doesn't remove impurities near as well. Is the lead pretty clean to start with?

[jmort]

Beeswax is a reducer. Why not spend $3.00 at WalMart or where-ever and get some pine shavings in the pet depatment and flux. You can use the Beeswax on clean alloy when you are casting. Not sure why any resistance to pine shavings. I have and use both Beeswax and pine shavings.

http://www.lasc.us/Fryxell_Book_Chapter_4_Fluxing.htm

[Larry Gibson]

I've been fluxing with beeswax for nigh onto 40+ years or more. I drop a small chunk onto the surface of the alloy and follow with a wooden match. The match lights on contact with the hot alloy and burns most of the smoke away while I stir and flux the alloy. Don't know if I'm "reducing", "reducing oxides back" or whatever but it does flux the alloy and it removes the impurities. Over the years after spending lots of $s on commercial fluxes, tiring of sawdust and kitty litter messes when changing alloys in the pot I've gone back to fluxing with beeswax as it does just as well as commercial fluxes and sawdust. The old timers said to use beeswax to flux with because it worked for them but they didn't have the internet to tell them it didn't.............and I use it and it works for me..........think I'll continue using it........

Larry Gibson

[capt.hollis]

I've been fluxing with beeswax for nigh onto 40+ years or more. I drop a small chunk onto the surface of the alloy and follow with a wooden match. The match lights on contact with the hot alloy and burns most of the smoke away while I stir and flux the alloy. Don't know if I'm "reducing", "reducing oxides back" or whatever but it does flux the alloy and it removes the impurities. Over the years after spending lots of $s on commercial fluxes, tiring of sawdust and kitty litter messes when changing alloys in the pot I've gone back to fluxing with beeswax as it does just as well as commercial fluxes and sawdust. The old timers said to use beeswax to flux with because it worked for them but they didn't have the internet to tell them it didn't.............and I use it and it works for me..........think I'll continue using it........

Larry Gibson

Larry I'll agree with you. I've been using. Beeswax for a while now, and it's been working well for me. Just been reading too much I guess, and now I've been second guessing myself, because lots are saying it's just a reducer, and won't cut it as a flux. Think I'll stay with the beeswax, because all this sawdust is doing that I'm using is working its way to the bottom of the pot.

[rondog]

Where's a good place to get beeswax? I know I can get shavings at Petsmart. Sawdust, no clue. And do you stir the melt around while fluxing? I'm still unclear on the whole concept and process.

[aspangler]

Larry I'll agree with you. I've been using. Beeswax for a while now, and it's been working well for me. Just been reading too much I guess, and now I've been second guessing myself, because lots are saying it's just a reducer, and won't cut it as a flux. Think I'll stay with the beeswax, because all this sawdust is doing that I'm using is working its way to the bottom of the pot.

I tried saw dust and got the same thing.

[Larry Gibson]

Where's a good place to get beeswax? I know I can get shavings at Petsmart. Sawdust, no clue. And do you stir the melt around while fluxing? I'm still unclear on the whole concept and process.

You can find some for sale on the "for sale" forum here sometimes. I usually have the wife pick up a couple small blocks for me when she goes to the hobby or health stores. Usually in small chunks and in ingots very similar to Lyman's. They cost 50 - 75 cents per or so (haven't got any in a while) and last a long time. I cut them into small chunks of marble size so one ingot makes about 20+ chunks. As the beeswax melts and is burning I use a large GI spoon (mess kit ones) in a gloved hand to stir the alloy vigorously bring alloy from the bottom to the surface instead of a swirling stir. I also scrape the sides of the pot to remove debris. The alloy fluxes quickly and when the surface is shiny I gently scrape and remove the debris with the spoon. If the alloy is "dirty" I flux twice.

Caution; set the spoon on top of the molten alloy for a few seconds before stirring to remove any moisture from the spoon. If moisture is on the spoon that is an invite for the tinsel fairy to come on in.........

Larry Gibson

[mold maker]

If your sawdust made it to the bottom of the pot, you put it there. Lead, once melted, simply wont allow anything beneath it, unless you push it there.
The laws of gravity prevail in your casting pot, same as everywhere else. Lead is by far the heaviest thing that you are supposed to have in your pot.
If you stir the bottom of the pot with a wooden object, your likely to rub off charred bits, that are left under the melt. To remove them use a baking spatula with the end cut off square to fit the bottom and edges of the pot. Use it to scrape first the bottom (away from the spout), edges, and sides of the pot. Done correctly this will bring all the crud to the surface.
Using a rich pine stick to stir, and saw dust to flux, is a great idea, but keep it away from contact with the bottom the pot.

[bangerjim]

Agree with above comments. Beeswax for casting pot.....sawdust and wax for smelting dirty crapola.

Chemically speaking, wax does only reducing, but is sure does what we need it to do to CLEAN lead!!!!

Beeswax has been the traditional "flux" for a loooooooong time. What easier way to do it than find a bee tree out in the wilds and get yourself some wax for you lead pours back in the day!

I use paraffin for smelting, as it takes a lot more of it. Those tea lights at the 99 cent store are the way to go.

But for CLEAN lead.....only good old beeswax. Woodcraft sells it also if you have one close to you. And Carnuba too!

bangerjim

[2wheelDuke]

I agree on the above. Although for smelting nasty stuff, I like motor oil too. I used to use used oil, but I switched to the cheapest straight 30wt I could find. I use sawdust to cover the surface of my casting pot when I bottom pour.

[capt.hollis]

If your sawdust made it to the bottom of the pot, you put it there. Lead, once melted, simply wont allow anything beneath it, unless you push it there.
The laws of gravity prevail in your casting pot, same as everywhere else. Lead is by far the heaviest thing that you are supposed to have in your pot.
If you stir the bottom of the pot with a wooden object, your likely to rub off charred bits, that are left under the melt. To remove them use a baking spatula with the end cut off square to fit the bottom and edges of the pot. Use it to scrape first the bottom (away from the spout), edges, and sides of the pot. Done correctly this will bring all the crud to the surface.
Using a rich pine stick to stir, and saw dust to flux, is a great idea, but keep it away from contact with the bottom the pot.

yes your right , I put it there by stirring the saw dust in. If I stir beeswax it just smokes more. Lol

[T-Dogg]

I agree on the above. Although for smelting nasty stuff, I like motor oil too. I used to use used oil, but I switched to the cheapest straight 30wt I could find. I use sawdust to cover the surface of my casting pot when I bottom pour.

How much oil do you use?

[bangerjim]

A lot of guys state they use "used" motor oil. That stuff contains nasty components, possible/probably carcinogenic, from your engine and burned gasoline/diesel that you do not want to breathe. Smelting WW's is bad enough! Why introduce more potential dangerous crapola into the process. Being frugal is one thing.....used oil is a bit too much!

If you insist on using motor oil, buy a can of straight weight 30W at WalFart. It is cheap enough. I never have any "used" oil anyway. I let my Lexus dealer change the oil!

And.............there are enough tea light candles in a box from the 99(.9) cent-only store to smelt a whole lotta WW's!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

banger

[JWFilips]

Well Since I learned the secret of "super clean boolit alloy only" in my casting pot, I have cast since this past March without any c**p in my melt ( & I'm only "reducing" with bees wax) Some how the Devil crept in about September & told me to put some nice pine saw dust on top of my melt ....now I only use metal implements So No wood stirring sticks & guess what, I got **** down under my melt
(coincidence or something more?) Anyway I scrubbed my pot out tonight ...nasty job!

Clean.... super clean boolit alloy back in and only beeswax from now on to just reduce the tin back in when necessary That's what works for me, so I will stick with it. I still use large quantities of pine saw dust to prepare my alloys but after the alloys are "clean" no sawdust is getting near my bottom pour casting pot.
I have learned a lot on this forum ( most knowledgeable folks on the internet!) & they have taught me to use what I need to make my system work & it does very well.

[runfiveslittlegirl]

you could just the sap from a pine tree and get both the fluxing and the carborization without getting the carbon particles down in the casting pot.
it smells nice too.

[cbrick]

I've used nothing but sawdust to flux for years and in that time not one speck of anything under the surface of the melt. Not once, not ever! The density of molten lead and the extremely light sawdust says that unless you change the laws of nature you couldn't possibly place sawdust on top of the melt and get it on the bottom and in your spout. That is simply physically impossible without some action on your part to force it down.

In metallurgy fluxing is both reducing and cleaning of undesirable elements. Waxes and oils are good reducers, they will reduce oxidized metal on the surface and return them to the melt. What wax and oils cannot do is clean, not without changing the physics of metallurgy. So to use the term "fluxing" in reference to wax and oil is only accurate if you change not only the physics of metallurgy but also the proper/accurate definition of "fluxing".

If you are getting anything on the bottom of your pot from using sawdust flux you put it there, it did not sink and ruin your casting session. Stop using a wood stick to stir and scrape the sides & bottom of the pot. Use a stainless spoon to bring alloy up from the bottom into contact with the carbon from the sawdust.

In fairness to new casters trying to learn this fascinating hobby we should keep the terms and their meaning accurate. Reducing is reducing, it is not fluxing. Fluxing is both reducing and cleaning the alloy of undesirable elements.

If you are happy with whatever your method is fine, nothing wrong with that but let's not try convince others of improper terminology for no better reason than it's the way you do it.

Rick

[JWFilips]

Well I don't believe I used the term fluxing improperly ( I said "reducing" with beeswax ) and I don't use sticks at all in my casting pot only metal.
Did not mean to lead anyone astray

[cbrick]

Well I don't believe I used the term fluxing improperly

And I don't believe I used your name.

Rick

[rondog]

So, there's another thread running about fluxing, and in there someone pasted a tutorial by Duke in Maine on fluxing. He states to use sawdust, and stir, stir, stir, mixing it in vigorously. Then repeat several times, then use beeswax, also stirring and repeating.

In this thread, it sounds like you're NOT supposed to stir? Just sprinkle it on top, let it burn off, then scrape off the crud?

Beeswax, parrafin, candles, motor oil, used motor oil, matchsticks, pine sticks, pine shavings, pine sawdust, grass, leaves, stir, don't stir, and God only knows what else I've forgotten. No wonder I'm confused.....