Seneca prices

[starmac]

What are the 45 cal thompson senecas selling for in pretty good condition??
I know prices are all over the map, but just a fair ballpark is what I looking for.

There is a 36 at the gunshow, which I would rather have, but he is asking 425, which I am thinking is too high.

[451 Pete]

To my way of thinking if the rifle is in good shape overall that is not really too high. If you consider the prices of the individual parts to make the Seneca you would easily have over $400 in the lock , stock, barrel and triggers when added to the additional hardware such as ram rod thimbles , ram rod , trigger guard, butt plate and sights. Guess it is how you look at it.

Pete

[Jeff Michel]

I gave 400 for a .45 caliber in new condition couple years ago. The .36 calibers I've seen have been at least 100.00 higher than any of the .45's. As Mr. Pete suggested, by the time you collect the pieces to assemble a complete rifle, 425 would be a steal. Other than that, depends how bad you want one. Since they are becoming collector items, the price will reflect that, obviously. I spoke to T/C years ago, shortly after their custom shop dropped the Seneca and Cherokee from their lineup. Asked if it was in the plans to reintroduce either one. Apparently, the equipment/tooling used was lost in a fire and there was no chance of them being produced in the future due to lack of demand. Good luck tracking one down, they are great woods rifle. You would be well pleased with either a Seneca or a Cherokee outside of the brass appointments and a bit of overall length, they are the same rifle.

[Fly]

Why is .36 cal bringing so much, now days?
Fly

[451 Pete]

Good question Fly. It might be that folks are finding out that the smaller caliber muzzle loaders are a lot of sport for small game hunting and a lot of fun with little recoil and cheap to shoot. ( They do make a pound of powder and lead go a long ways. ) In the case of the Seneca or Cherokee they were of a very good quality and reasonable in price when they were being made, and in my opinion, of better quality than what is out there and available today.

Pete

[drhall762]

Yep, a near new .36 is in the $500.00 range. That is about what I paid. .45 are a little cheaper for sure. Like anything that is not made any longer, if you want it, it costs.

[mooman76]

36s are harder to come by so when you do it has higher prices. I have rarely seen any at all.

[starmac]

Well I didn't buy either one of them, I kept going back and looking at that 45, but finally passed on it, probably should have picked it up at that price though.
If either one would have had the lock on the right side, it would have been an easy decision though.

[Nikkisdad]

Starmac - are you interested in a T/C Hawken .45 caliber? If so I have one that just sits over the fireplace purchased in 1972, great shape a few dings in the wood very small. Let me know via PM or??? and I would let go shipped for $325.00

[Mumblypeg]

Starmac - are you interested in a T/C Hawken .45 caliber? If so I have one that just sits over the fireplace purchased in 1972, great shape a few dings in the wood very small. Let me know via PM or??? and I would let go shipped for $325.00

That won't last long.... I've got three of them. Two 36's and a 45.

[Ithaca Gunner]

The Seneca was the only TC I really liked. I guess it was the New England style.

[SCHUETZENBOOMER]

I owned a Seneca in .45 when I was much younger. Sold it and had regrets as I was handing it over. Fretted for years and finally had a chance to pick up another in like new condition. I have handled hundreds of different rifles and have to say that the Seneca is the nicest balanced and easiest carrying rifle I have ever owned. My Remington 141 comes in a close second. You find a Seneca at a decent $$ buy it, you wont ever regret having it.

[starmac]

Funny you should mention the 141, there was one in 32 rem that I haggled on some. I always liked carrying the M99, but I have a M14 that is a joy to carry.

[KyBill]

I gave 350 for my T/C 36 broken Hammer and ramrod .
good condition well used but no Beaten .
seen stocks for 350+ and Barrels 200+ they are worth more parted out go figure

[EricinFla]

Fast forward two years +, is this still valid for these rifles?

I have one I traded for and am curious of the value.

[Kylongrifle]

Senecas and Cherokees continue to raise in price every year..I see decent .32 Cherokee's go for $500+ all the time..Nice barrels for $250-$300 all the time..

[pietro]

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Please understand the general muzzleloading rifle market in the USA.

The vast majority of buyers want non-traditional, stainless-steel, scopeable inlines with plastic ( or pallet wood) stocks - and not side & under hammer guns.

Some private sellers and some gunshop owners, seeing the demand for "modern" plastic/fantastic rifles, mentally classify ALL side & under hammer rifles as virtually worthless. (most couldn't tell you the difference between the down-size T/C's and the full-sized T/C's, if their life depended on it)

The folks interested in sidelock & U/H rifles are folks that prefer them to the plastic/fantastic "modern" rifles, or have gone the inline route for awhile before returning to the challenge (or legal requirement) of side hammer hunting/shooting.

Those interested in side/under hammer rifles have a plethora of used, full-size/heavy knockoff's of Hawken rifles to choose from - but only a very limited selection of smaller (more petite), lightweight rifles (like the Seneca/Cherokee line) to choose from, to float their boats.



I have returned to a .45 Cherokee and two Seneca's (a .36 & a .45) rifles for my hunting needs - after decades of larger/heavier/bigbore & inline rifles.



ALL the T/C Seneca/Cherokee/Patriot (pistol) line guns share the same down-sized components, compared to the larger Hawken's & Renegade's.

The down-sized components of the Seneca/Cherokee rifles are generally made of unobtainium, since the T/C building that was dedicated to the manufacture of those petite guns burnt to the ground many years ago.

Those component's differences are:

* 13/16" barrels (measured across-the-flats), ILO the Hawken/Renegade 15/16" & 1" sizes.
* Smaller lock & hammers than the Hawken/Renegade line.
* Slimmer stocks than the Hawken/Renegade line.
* Lighter weight (about 6lbs) than the larger Hawken/Renegades (8lbs to 9lbs)




So, the current T/C Seneca/Cherokee market conditions are:

1) Limited supply, which drives pricing/costs higher.

2) The smaller size also drives the demand higher.

3) The higher demand, in turn with the limited supply, also drives pricing/costs higher.

4) As time goes by, less & less of those rifles survive/remain & become available for purchase - driving the pricing/costs higher yet.



Ergo, the current (Fall 2015) values (defined as the actual selling price), or fair market value, that I've been tracking are:

.45 cal Seneca's & Cherokee's represent the vast majority made, of those rifles, and so they will usually change hands today for about $400-$500 in excellent/unmolested condition & w/o issue(s).

.32 cal Seneca's & Cherokee's represent about 25% of the production of those rifles, and so they will usually change hands today in the $500-$650 range, in the above stated condition.

.36 cal Seneca's & Cherokee's represent about 10% of the production of those rifles, and so they will usually change hands in the $600-$800+ range, also presuming the above conditions.





Private/local sales prices can vary widely, due to the gun's remaining % of original factory issue " condition" , and to the seller's lack of knowledge of the specific market (aka: Ignorance) - so those rifles can certainly be found for less than a fair market value, but a prospective buyer might have to hunt for one for a number of years (like 10 or 20 years) before finding a "deal".



Fair Market Value is determined by what somebody will actually pay (not just what THEY say might pay: or have paid sometime in the past) for whatever TODAY (or very recently), in a widely-viewed/attended guns-only auction (either online or in a brick-and-mortor auction house).

Auction "opening bids", "reserve prices" and/or "buy-it-now" (BIN) prices are NOT values - they are what some seller hopes to get for whatever.

Best practice indicates anybody should surf ONLY "sold" auctions, and not "closed" auctions, to determine true value w/o actually putting their whatever up for auction.


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[EricinFla]

Thanks for the insight, the .45 Seneca was a good trade for me. Nice little rifle.

Considering buying a slower twist barrel for it to shoot RB. I see that Pecatonica sells a 13/16", .45 barrel with a 1:60 twist.

[Jeff Michel]

The stock barrel was 1:48, mine shot just fine with RB. I gave up trying to fine barrels for my Seneca and Cherokee. I just got .40 and .36 blanks from the Log Cabin Shop in Lodi, OH and ordered the breech plugs from Track of the Wolf and put what I wanted together. Made for a nice winter project.

[pietro]

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Eric - I would WAG that the Petronica barrel would need a down-sized T/C Seneca breechplug QD tang (generally unobtainium) installed, in order to fit your Seneca's stock inletting & lock geometry.


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