Derimming 22LR- tearing the case

[Salmon-boy]

I just polished out a plate/punch combo and hit one out of 10 which tore through the firing pin strike...

All others seemed fine with the exception that it took some work to get the case off the punch.. Do I need to reduce the shank of my punch?

[MUSTANG]

Suggestions:

(1) Try annealing your 22LR cases before derimming. Corbin recommends annealing before derimming.I do mine in electric oven set on "Self Clean" - search Cast Boolits for options on annealing. You will find a variety of opinions on pros and cons by members of when to anneal (pre or post derimming).

(2) Make sure you clean/polish 22LR jackets before derimming (particularly after annealing). Make sure the inside of the 22LR cases are VERY Clean. In addition to powder residue, you have to get rid of dirt that may have collected inside at range, plus the ground glass compound must be removed that is used to help ignite the 22LR primer charge in the rim area.

(3) Adjust the derimming die up and down in the rock chucker press until you get the position where derimming takes the least effort in your Rock Chucker.

(4) Sort all of your 22LR jackets into groups by headstamp (e.g. Rem/F/C/ Super-X/etc..) This way you can validate if problems are encountered in a specific 22LR case type.

(5) In addition to lubing the outside of the 22LR case; also place a slight amount (touch) of lube on the Punch before placing a 22LR on the punch. You can accomplish this by a slight swipe up or down the punch with an Index finger and thumb having just a touch of lube on them.

Mustang

[Smokin7mm]

I agree on that one from Joe. Had to replace mine punch today. Every 5-6 case got stuck. After replacing the derimming was going again like before. Need to get those cases cleaner.
Is there any one who knows the perfect way to get the dirt out of the cases before derimming. I tried cooking and wet tumbling. Found out that cooking was the best way. Allways open for new ideas. Is ultrasonic a good option ?

I use an ultrasonic cleaner and it works very well in removing all the residues.

Bret

[Smokin7mm]

I just polished out a plate/punch combo and hit one out of 10 which tore through the firing pin strike...

All others seemed fine with the exception that it took some work to get the case off the punch.. Do I need to reduce the shank of my punch?

So is this a die you made yourself for derimming? Might be the lead in radius causing too much initial force to get it inside the die causing tears. Also if homemade, did you taper the end of the punch slightly? The brass once ironed out in the rim is slightly thicker in that rim area. The punches I have are slightly taper at the end (maybe .001-.002 smaller).
I do not anneal prior to derimming. I tried it but got more cases stuck on the punch as they do not have any springback and tend to form to the punch and not come off.

Bret

[Salmon-boy]

So is this a die you made yourself for derimming? ...
The punches I have are slightly taper at the end (maybe .001-.002 smaller).
Bret

Thanks! It's a completely homebrew concoction. Just a steel plate (3"x5" or so) with a hole drilled and reamed to the correct size, chamfered for a lead-in and then polished. The punch is tool steel turned to size and rounded at the end. It is completely cylindrical (no taper, I'll have to grab my mics and measure it again).. The punch is set into an arbor press and cases are pushed through the plate.

The tear was just a very minor hole right where the hammer struck the case.. If I can get a good shot of it, I'll post a photo.

< EDIT >
Ok, so I spent the afternoon working on 2 punches.. Talk about finicky business!! 120grit emery cloth can be far too aggressive some times.... I'll happily await the die I purchased from Lafaun!!

[Prospector Howard]

That's only if you believe you HAVE TO get the rim line completely out to make quality bullets. I don't believe that at all. From what I've seen here, most of the manufacturers derim dies are .220 ID. If you have a punch at .199+ and you can barely get a Remington case through without tearing it; and then you try to put a thicker Federal through---you're going to have problems!

Sorry! I have to disagree with you on this point. My punch is at .1995 and I must say I think it is wearing out. The only way to get the rim line completely out is for the tightest tolerance possible.

Not only that but you are also leaving out that measurements of the die insert that removes the rim, this should also be in the equation. Not just the diameter of the punch.

[303british.com]

I agree. I took a couple of my punches (Corbin) down 0.002 inches and I have no problems with Federal cases now, using the slightly smaller diameter. I took some crocus cloth and put the punch in my drill press to turn it. I have far, far fewer problems with tearing or punch throughs. When the distance between the punch and the side of the die is too narrow, then you are going to have several problems.

First, if the die/case/punch combination is too tight, you'll have a devil of a time pushing it through. This leads to more tears, punch throughs and stretching. It also means you have to exert more force on the case to push it through. This will tire you out and will put additional strain on the equipment.

Corbin says their punches should last for at least 5,000 cases, but this is dependent on how well you clean the cases before derimming and the die/punch fit. The thicker the punch, the more wear. The trick is finding the right diameter punch for several off the thicker cases like Fedderal and CCI, and using the thinner punches when derimming them. Mine mic at 0.197 inches. This works for me and I suspect will work for everyone else.

There are different manufacturer's derimming dies, so any internal differences between makers might mean altering the 0.197 diameter punch.

[Randy C]

[Utah Shooter]

That's only if you believe you HAVE TO get the rim line completely out to make quality bullets. I don't believe that at all. From what I've seen here, most of the manufacturers derim dies are .220 ID. If you have a punch at .199+ and you can barely get a Remington case through without tearing it; and then you try to put a thicker Federal through---you're going to have problems!

Have to....? Of course not. Clearly you do not get the line completely out and you are still making bullets.

I do not have to replace my fishing line every year either just to fish. But if I want to eliminate the though of an 8lb Largemouth snapping my line because it was put on 2 years ago I would think it better to switch it every year. Make Sense?

Another topic I would like to add is, why do you use so many different jackets at the same time to make projectiles? If you think about it you can use a thinner 22lr case until your die and or punch is worn a bit then use the thicker cases and be able to get similar results.

Not all of us are settling for "Plinkers" made from the 22lr case.

[303british.com]

I agree on that one from Joe. Had to replace mine punch today. Every 5-6 case got stuck. After replacing the derimming was going again like before. Need to get those cases cleaner.
Is there any one who knows the perfect way to get the dirt out of the cases before derimming. I tried cooking and wet tumbling. Found out that cooking was the best way. Allways open for new ideas. Is ultrasonic a good option ?

I boil the jackets in a pickling pot first to get most of the crud out. I wash them a second time in an ultrasonic. That gets 98% of the grit out from inside the case. You'll never get 100%.

...Another topic I would like to add is, why do you use so many different jackets at the same time to make projectiles? If you think about it you can use a thinner 22lr case until your die and or punch is worn a bit then use the thicker cases and be able to get similar results.

Not all of us are settling for "Plinkers" made from the 22lr case.

Even with washing the cases, over time, I get a ring on the punch from what little bit of grit remains inside the case after cleaning. I've never tried to cut it off and smooth the end over so that I can continue to use it, but I might.

WRT the punch/jacket fit, I think that in some cases, it is far too tight. This is not a jacket making punch, but Corbin makes core seating punches in two different diameters for VB and RF jackets because of the different jacket thicknesses.

I do not believe that it's necessary to crush the side of the jacket against the die. As I posted earlier, it's tougher to push the RF case through which wears on the operator and the equipment.

[Prospector Howard]

You're making alot of assumptions about the quality of the bullets that I'm making, and using so many different jackets "at the same time" to make projectiles. The point I was trying to make was that some of the manufacturers of the dies seem to be supplying one punch in a size that's so large that the customer has to fight with it. Then you have to try to improvise, like you're idea of using the thinner cases first; and then when the punch wears down, use the thicker cases. Why not just have two different sized punches in the first place? For some reason they haven't figured out that the different brand cases are not the same thickness at the case head. As I've said (and 303british and Zymurgy50) previously, the Federal and CCI cases are thicker than the Remington and Winchester. It's just alot better idea to have two different size punches if you plan on using all the different brand cases. Personally I have saved tens of thousands of Federal cases (I do prefer Federal) that I've shot myself over the years so I don't have to rely on range brass. Some people do use range brass and all the different brands, and this is where some of the problems come from; and why this thread got started in the first place. 303 and some others here understand that you don't have to crush the case against the side of the die with a punch that is excessivley large to make good quality bullets. My rifles don't care one bit (and shoot just as good of groups) about that little line that's left there after derimming with a punch that's a little smaller diameter.

Have to....? Of course not. Clearly you do not get the line completely out and you are still making bullets.

I do not have to replace my fishing line every year either just to fish. But if I want to eliminate the though of an 8lb Largemouth snapping my line because it was put on 2 years ago I would think it better to switch it every year. Make Sense?

Another topic I would like to add is, why do you use so many different jackets at the same time to make projectiles? If you think about it you can use a thinner 22lr case until your die and or punch is worn a bit then use the thicker cases and be able to get similar results.

Not all of us are settling for "Plinkers" made from the 22lr case.