BPCRS Target and rule changes?

[Dragoon 45]

I hope this is a wild rumor. Has anyone heard anything about the NRA changing the rules on silhouettes from knock-down to swingers? I am getting this info second hand, but supposedly the BPCRS Nationals at Raton are doing away with the traditional silhouette targets next year and are going to replace them with swingers. And if this is going to happen, what will that do to local matches which may not be able to afford to convert to the new type targets?

Again I hope this is just some type of wild rumor. But I have not seen any of the results from this years matches yet or any proposed rule changes that might have been discussed there.

[country gent]

Both of the ranges I shoot shilloettes on use swingers. Only one target fo each shooter and shoot it 10 times. They hang from short chains. Saves on range space and allows smaller ranges to run more shooters.

[EDG]

With a swinger how do they insure the load was on target enough for a "knock down".
Do all hits count - even from something like a 38-55?

[John Boy]

Do all hits count - even from something like a 38-55?

If the swinger wiggles, presume - book it, a knock down.
Don't believe all ranges that have silhouette matches will convert to all swingers. Ridgway for instance has 4 silhouette match ranges and the latest one is a highbore 700 - 1000yd. Match attendance is fantastic

[Lead pot]

This will get the .38 calibers shooting this game. Probably a lot of hollowing and jerking to get this change. Now they don't have to worry about getting it knocked over.

[EDG]

I can see the lighter recoiling combos will take over unless there a power factor involved.
BPCR with a 32-40?

This will get the .38 calibers shooting this game. Probably a lot of hollowing and jerking to get this change. Now they don't have to worry about getting it knocked over.

[Don McDowell]

Haven't heard anything about strictly swingers, but I do know there is a push towards knockdown targets at some ranges that hinge on the bottom so a simple pull of the lever will set them back into the upright position. Saves a lot of need of target setters and is probably quicker, and not so much worrying about "hardset" and mulitiple falls from a wobbly rail etc..

[Dragoon 45]

Like I said I hope this is just a wild rumor. I got hit out of the blue with this, at a local gun show this morning, where I ran into some of the shooters in our local matches. I am the Match Director for our local matches and have already received some questions about this and I don't have a clue if this is true or not. All the comments I have gotten so far is negative in the extreme about this idea. Our next match is coming up the first of the month and I was hoping to be able to either tell shooters this is just a rumor or at least have a clear idea of what is actually being proposed.

I am going to call the NRA about this tomorrow, but if experience is anything to go by, I might get an answer by late Sept.

[Dragoon 45]

In theory that would be a good idea, but at our gun club, with some of the idiots we have, they will have something like that totally destroyed in about a week. We have to keep our silhouettes under lock and key, or they will have holes blown in them with AP ammo within hours.

Haven't heard anything about strictly swingers, but I do know there is a push towards knockdown targets at some ranges that hinge on the bottom so a simple pull of the lever will set them back into the upright position. Saves a lot of need of target setters and is probably quicker, and not so much worrying about "hardset" and mulitiple falls from a wobbly rail etc..

[Don McDowell]

I would think with the tipover system you could lay those targets down at the end of a match and lock them in the down position so the idjut sob's couldn't get them up to shoot them?

[TXGunNut]

I don't really have a dog in this fight but if swingers become the norm the next logical step is paper targets. Hinged targets may be easier than traditional targets but can imagine they present their own problems and maintenance challenges.
OTOH how many BPCR shooters have retired because their old bones & joints can't take the punishment any more? How many more would play the game if a .38 or .40 would do the job? Looks like this is a matter of tradition VS getting more shooters into the game. In spite of the rich tradition of the sillywet sport I think I know which side will prevail.

[Don McDowell]

There's a lot of folks swears by the 38-50 in the sillouettes, and the 40-65 has been the gun behind the guy getting the national championship more than once...
Time and logistics is the biggest problem match director types run into. Getting enough help to run a match smoothly isn't an easy thing to do, so anything that will streamline the process...

[kokomokid]

You may shoot the hanger (sighter) animal five times sighting in and then have to come back to it when half your animal are blown down by wind. With that many splatters on the hanger makes it hard on spotter and score keeper. A post hit shakes the animal and makes a hit noise, hard to tell your shooter that you don't know! LB

[John Boy]

We have to keep our silhouettes under lock and key, or they will have holes blown in them with AP ammo within hours.

Ridgway has 4 silhouette ranges, each with 10 banks and the steel is available 24x7. There has been next to zero damage. One of the reasons why I drive 8 hrs OW and spend a week there
Reason? Daily, there is a responsible club member at the range. As an alternative: a Range Officer or digital security cameras?

[Baja_Traveler]

Our silhouettes at Pala are up all the time, not many holes in them - but there are a few. Harold makes sure to keep bright orange targets up for the full metal jacket guys to shoot at. I definitely wouldn't like a non-reactive target - that would take away 33% of the enjoyment of shooting the game...

1/3 - Recoil therapy
1/3 - Hearing the ring
1/3 - watching it fall

[Dragoon 45]

Don, I could tell horror stories all day long about the damage our range gets on an almost daily basis. We have controled access, a gate card system, but don't have the finances to put a range master at the range every day. If something is where some of these idiots can get at it, even if it is disabled or locked in place, they will figure out some way to damage or destroy it.

[Don McDowell]

Don, I could tell horror stories all day long about the damage our range gets on an almost daily basis. We have controled access, a gate card system, but don't have the finances to put a range master at the range every day. If something is where some of these idiots can get at it, even if it is disabled or locked in place, they will figure out some way to damage or destroy it.

Sounds to me more like that club needs to get the sheriff's dept involved and press and pursue charges of felony property distruction , and criminal trespass, and unauthorized use of a firearm....

[jbs4570]

Back to Dragoon 45's original question. You're hearing the latest rumor of the month. There has not been any discussion in the NRA Silhouette Committee about anything like this. Swingers have been used, even at the National Championship level, when wind conditions won't let the targets stand on their own. Besides, makes no sense. Ever tried to spot a .45 hole in a paper target at 500 meters? I have seen some targets and stands modified for auto stand up. I believe OKC has done this on their handgun silhouettes. Makes sense. Fast. Probably much more expensive to do on a 500 meter range. I'll let you know if this subject is brought up at the next committee meeting. Doubt if it will be.
Thanks,
Joe Scott
NRA Silhouette Committee Member

[Lead pot]

It wouldn't be hard to set up Air Pneumatics or Hydraulic to reset the silhouettes for each bank. It would greatly move the match along. WE use the air pneumatics for the pistol targets and it wouldn't be any harder to set the critters. If you can get the help putting it together the cost layout will be low.
About the only time you need to go down range is for a quick paint job maybe after 5-6 relay shots.

[Dragoon 45]

Thank you for the info. I was hoping this was just a wild rumor and I am glad it is. I will pass this on at our next match and hopefully put this to rest. There were a couple of fairly worked up shooters going on about this and I frankly was at a loss as to what to tell them.

Back to Dragoon 45's original question. You're hearing the latest rumor of the month. There has not been any discussion in the NRA Silhouette Committee about anything like this. Swingers have been used, even at the National Championship level, when wind conditions won't let the targets stand on their own. Besides, makes no sense. Ever tried to spot a .45 hole in a paper target at 500 meters? I have seen some targets and stands modified for auto stand up. I believe OKC has done this on their handgun silhouettes. Makes sense. Fast. Probably much more expensive to do on a 500 meter range. I'll let you know if this subject is brought up at the next committee meeting. Doubt if it will be.
Thanks,
Joe Scott
NRA Silhouette Committee Member