Elk Hunting

[Sergeant Earthworm]

A fellow I met at Church is active duty Air Force assigned to a nearby airbase. He drew a cow tag for the muzzleloading season which starts in about a month, and a couple weeks ago he bought a CVA Optima in .50 caliber. Last week we went to the range and I gave him some Lyman 370 grain Maxi-Balls to try. His first three shots were over 70 grains of Triple Seven FFG, and he shot a 1.5 inch group at 50 yards off the bench. Thinking 70 grains is a pretty light load, he bumped it up to 90 grains but the group spread out to about 3.5 inches.

We're going back to the range as soon as possible, but until then the question is whether a 370 grain Maxi-Ball on top of 70 grains of Triple Seven will deliver enough energy to provide a reliable and clean kill out to 100 or 125 yards. Obviously, with a well placed shot it would that load will work just fine. Given that in the field not everything works as planned, I think that load is marginal even though it is accurate. The problem is we don't have a lot of time to experiment with different loads.

I was tempted to give him a hard time about putting in for an elk tag when he didn't own and had never fired a muzzleloader, but I haven't said a word about it. He was assigned here several months ago after back to back tours in Afghanistan, so I'm just trying to help him get ready any way I can.

Any thoughts?

[sharpsguy]

70 grains of Triple Seven 2f under a 370 grain Max-Ball will shoot all the way through an elk at 150 yards, no problem. Tell him to go hunting and don't worry about it. You ought to see what 70 grains of 2f KIK black powder and a 340 grain Gould bullet out of a 45-70 will do to one. If you saw that, you wouldn't worry.

[quilbilly]

I have always used 78 gr of FFF Goex (the Holy black) in my 50 cal side-lock muzzleloaders for both my elk and deer hunting. If that wasn't enough, those elk really looked dead when I skinned them. The longest shot was 70 yards however and I was using a 255 gr 429 boolit inside a sabot. Just make sure he has at least three of the plastic speed loaders.

[Zymurgy50]

It wasnt an elk, but the largest whitetail I have ever harvested was taken with a 50 cal 370 gn minnie over 80gn of 2F black. Bow to stern shot and the bullet still exited the deer. Try a felt wad between the powder and slug, maybe get a pound of real black powder to try.....

[Sergeant Earthworm]

Thanks for the input. I forgot to mention that he is using a felt over powder wad. And I did give him a pound of Goex 2F to try, just haven't been back to the range yet.

btw, I'm using the 370 grain Maxi-Ball on top of 90 grains of 3F with wad and shoot about 3 inches at 100 yards out of my TC Hawken. That load produces about 1400 fps at the muzzle.

[Larry Gibson]

I use 90 gr (V) fffg triple 7 under my own 370 gr maxiballs for 1570 fps out of my TC Blk Mtn Magnum. Accuracy is excellent as I cast them of 16-1 alloy so they hold up to the acceleration. I also use a felt wad under the bullet.

Larry Gibson

[Gtek]

Anyone check the twist on that smoke pole? Gtek

[Harter66]

Same accuracy deal w/my TC Hawken and Maxi's except I get hammer lift w/90gr of FFg.
I think the 28'' would do to 150yd .

[MT Gianni]

Same accuracy deal w/my TC Hawken and Maxi's except I get hammer lift w/90gr of FFg.
I think the 28'' would do to 150yd .

Each gun is different. I get good groups with 90 gr FFg and a TC Maxi. No hammer lift at all.

[Ramjet-SS]

I hunt with a Virginia Rifle that built from a Jim Chambers Kit yes it was allot of work. But the rifle is wonderful slow twist 58 caliber with a swamped barrel and it is a flinch lock . I shoot a load of Swiss Black powder of 120 grains FFg with a fiber wad and patched round ball drops deer right now and I would not hesitate to use this Rifle on Elk.

[Sergeant Earthworm]

Anyone check the twist on that smoke pole? Gtek

Twist is 1:28.

[fouronesix]

Sounds like progress to me! 1.5 @ 50 is not bad at all. Just so he knows the trajectory limitations and accuracy limitations of the ML, that 70gr load will do fine on elk. I don't know what the 70 gr load pushes the Maxi to, but even if he could get the thing cranked up to 1500 fps muzzle vel, it won't make a lot of difference about lethality. That bullet out of a ML depends almost entirely on penetration and very little on energy transfer causing tissue damage. 10s of millions of bison were killed with about the same ballistics with very similar projectiles.... the major difference being the firearms were primarily blackpowder cartridge rifles.

I'll second the thought about trying a felt wad or card wad under the bullet for a heavier charge with accuracy. Sometimes a base wad helps.

Since he is shooting an inline there'd be no "HC" foul called if he wanted to try a Power Belt. I think CO still considers them legal? Not that the Power Belt is going to delivery significantly different terminal results than the Maxi, but it may allow for a little more velocity with accuracy--- since that's what he seems to want. Also, there's something to be said about confidence, even though there may be little difference in the reality. Good luck!

[Sergeant Earthworm]

Sounds like progress to me!

We're definitely going back to the range as soon as possible to try some other combinations (and take the chronograph). And yes, Power Belts are legal in Colorado. Since I cast the Maxi-Balls he/we decided to go there first. As you say, there is a confidence factor involved, but to my thinking 1.5 inches @ 50 yards should inspire confidence.

[quilbilly]

My load, 78 gr of FFF Goex, is the rough equivalent of about 95 gr of FF Goex.

[fouronesix]

Just a random thought about the Power Belt. I know they do really well in some rifles and only so-so in others. Obviously the bullet/jacket isn't going to obturate very much if at all into the grooves- with the plastic skirt having to do "most of the work".

My theory about them is, and it's pure theory: if the shank of the bullet fits fairly tight against the bore (lands), then it won't tip during barrel travel and there's a better chance for good results. If the bullet is a few thous smaller than bore diameter then the bullet tips during it's travel down the bore.

I haven't shot them enough at all to really get a good handle on "best" loads, but I've noticed the shooters having the best luck seem to be pushing them pretty hard.

[Sergeant Earthworm]

My load, 78 gr of FFF Goex, is the rough equivalent of about 95 gr of FF Goex.

For some reason that is a mystery to me, the CVA owners manual recommends 2F whether the real thing or otherwise. I called CVA to ask about it and their answer was pretty much "go with what the manual says." I have always used 3F Goex in all my guns excepting 2F the Brown Bess and have always had good results.

[Sergeant Earthworm]

Just a random thought about the Power Belt. I know they do really well in some rifles and only so-so in others. Obviously the bullet/jacket isn't going to obturate very much if at all into the grooves- with the plastic skirt having to do "most of the work".

My theory about them is, and it's pure theory: if the shank of the bullet fits fairly tight against the bore (lands), then it won't tip during barrel travel and there's a better chance for good results. If the bullet is a few thous smaller than bore diameter then the bullet tips during it's travel down the bore.

I haven't shot them enough at all to really get a good handle on "best" loads, but I've noticed the shooters having the best luck seem to be pushing them pretty hard.

Never tried Powerbelts myself. The scuttlebutt seems about equally divided between guys who love them and guys who hate them. Since the 370 Maxi-Ball casts and shoots so nicely (and cheaply) I just haven't been very motivated to switch. But since you brought it up, I guess I'll have to try them...

"Honey, your hair looks lovely this morning, and by the way, I need more money for shooting stuff."

[fouronesix]

That's the truth!

Since T/C brought it out (70s) I've liked the original Maxi in the 50 caliber especially for larger game. It is one effective game getter. The small Maxi aluminum mold that T/C used to sell has always dropped a good bullet for me. Like you, I cast most everything for MLs and haven't felt the need to spend a bunch of time or money on testing and wringing out all the various ML projectiles, including the Power Belt, to see what they will really do. Have spent more of my time the last 10-15 years just enjoying shooting MLs for the fun of it and not so much hunting. But I do know from experience that the Maxi, even at modest velocity, does a very good job on larger game including elk. Certainly hope your friend has a safe, enjoyable, relaxing hunt at the best time of the year, IMO, to be in the woods. That would be a successful hunt. Getting an elk would be a bonus.

[Sergeant Earthworm]

My Air Force buddy got his elk. Six weeks ago he had never shot a muzzleloader, and second day of the season he bagged a good size cow. He and his son were sitting in a tree line watching a meadow when the cow came ambling through and passed within 30 yards of them. The .50 370 grain Maxi-Ball on top of 70 grains 3f went right through the heart and dropped the animal in her tracks, which you would expect at 30 yards. Doesn't get much better (or easier!) than that.

[fouronesix]

Congrats, I'm really happy about that outcome! That's the way to get the job done right. Work on the loads and invest in some range time. Hunt close, shoot straight, shoot once. Doesn't get much better than that.