45-70 400 gr bullet from biglube

[Matt85]

wow im sorry to hear about your rifle Good Cheer! I would force that friend to replace the rifle if I were you.

oldfart1956, ive been in contact with Larry for some time now. he's a great guy with a wealth of knowledge.

well I went to the range today and learned a thing or two about bullets under 500 grains. first here are the loads I used:

trip four:
5: fed mag, 70 2f, .459 lee, spg (horrible)
5: fed mag, 65 2f, .459 lee, spg (horrible)
5: fed mag, 60 2f, .459 lee, spg (horrible)
5: fed mag, 60 2f, .459 lee, spg, wad* (second best 5")
5: fed mag, 55 2f, .459 lee, spg, 3 wads* (best groups 4")
5: fed mag, 70 2f, .459 biglube, spg (horrible)
5: fed mag, 65 2f, .459 biglube, spg (horrible)
5: fed mag, 60 2f, .459 biglube, spg (ok 6")
5: fed mag, 60 2f, .459 biglube, spg, wad* (ok 6")
5: fed mag, 55 2f, .459 biglube, spg, 3 wads* (ok 6")

* = 0.03" wads compressed with the powder

now for what I learned: neither bullet liked charges over 60 grains. strangely enough neither bullet worked well without wads either. with both bullets the best groups were done with 55gr of 2F under 3 wads that were compressed with the powder. the best group out of all of them was with the Lee 405 grain over 3 wads and 55gr of 2F. I do find it strange that the hollow base bullet required a over powder wad to work properly. without a wad the Lee 405gr bullet was worthless and wouldn't even hit paper. something else I noticed was that the 60gr charge with a wad seemed to burn the cleanest while charged both over and under that seemed to produce more fouling. the 60gr charge with a wad yielded a strange red residue that ive heard about online before but I cant remember what it was, any ideas? my current conclusion is that the biglube bullet is not the best choice for shooting from a trapdoor but could probably yield decent hunting groups if time is taken to work up a proper load. the Lee 405gr bullet has some good potential with some more load work.

-matt

[Guido4198]

Matt,
I already gave up for the time being anyhow on Lee 400's in my Trapdoor. I'm glad to see you ran some loads with multiple .030 wads though. I'm loading a 491 gn NEI bullet. I'm seating it "out" to achieve the longer C.O.L. my rifle appears to like, which has left me with less compression than my Goex 3f appears to like. I've been pondering running some test loads with multiple wads.
Much of the fun of BPCR shooting is the infinite variety of variables we get to experiment with..!!!

[13Echo]

My Trapdoor does very well with the Lee 405hb. I use 59grs FFg compressed enough to allow seating the bullet so I can get a frim crimp over the ogive. No wad. The bullet casts at 0.460" out of 30:1 alloy and is shot as cast. The case is expanded with a 0.458 - 0.462" Buffalo Arms expander so the bullet isn't resized by seating in a too tight a case neck. The firm crimp seems necessary to get enough pressure to allow the bullet to bump up to fit the bore as the same load is pretty poor with out the crimp. The load is very accurate in my friend's rifle and quite good in mine. My rifle still prefers the SAECO 500 gr 881 bullet.

Jerry Liles

[Matt85]

i suspect the Lee 405gr bullet is capable of the same groups my 500 grain bullet is. the best ive ever been able to do is around 2" at 100 yards with the 500gr bullets. im sure the rifle could do a little better but its really only as good as the person behind the trigger.

-matt

[Springfield]

I wish Mihec would get to the hollowbase 45-70 bullet GB. It looks a lot like the Big Lube but not quite so much lube, and a hollow base. Should make a good Trapdoor bullet, at least out to 200 yds. Nice to see some actual tests on the BL bullet instead of just " it sucks".

[Baja_Traveler]

I'm not shooting it out of a trap door, but I use a 330 gr Lyman 457122 as my 200 yard chicken load for BPCR. It's very accurate, and I wouldn't consider changing to anything else at that yardage. (the pigs, turkeys and rams get a BACO 530gr Money Bullet)...

[Don McDowell]

I wish Mihec would get to the hollowbase 45-70 bullet GB. It looks a lot like the Big Lube but not quite so much lube, and a hollow base. Should make a good Trapdoor bullet, at least out to 200 yds. Nice to see some actual tests on the BL bullet instead of just " it sucks".

: fed mag, 70 2f, .459 biglube, spg (horrible)
5: fed mag, 65 2f, .459 biglube, spg (horrible)
5: fed mag, 60 2f, .459 biglube, spg (ok 6")
5: fed mag, 60 2f, .459 biglube, spg, wad* (ok 6")
5: fed mag, 55 2f, .459 biglube, spg, 3 wads* (ok 6")


Lucks to me like just sucks would save a lot of typing.

[Matt85]

I didn't have to retype that, it was copied from my reloading notes. all I did was add the opinion on performance.

im betting you could achieve 4" groups at 100 yards with the biglube bullet with some work. im also betting the biglube bullet would out perform the Lee bullet when it comes to damage on a deer. but unfortunately for biglube I prefer accuracy over damage in my hunting rounds. ive hunted deer with a 50 cal round ball which damages on par with using an FMJ bullet and the deer still wound up in my freezer due to the ball going exactly where it needed too.

-matt

[Springfield]

Saying something Just sucks is somewhat subjective, actual numbers let's us decide if it sucks for us or is good enough for what we wish to do. I'm sure the 10th place shooter at Quigley felt his shooting sucked that day, and yet he could probably outshoot 99% of us here. It all depends on your frame of reference.

[1874Sharps]

Like Canoeroller suggests, I have had good luck with the LYMAN 457124. The Lee HB 405 bullet, even though it was reputed to shoot well for others, did not shoot well for me. If you are shooting 200 yards or less, I think the Lyman boolit will suit you very well. One thing I like about the old Lyman 405 and 500 grain molds is that they are either very close to, or exactly what the folks 130 or so years ago were using. Well-proven is a term that comes to mind.

[Don McDowell]

Saying something Just sucks is somewhat subjective, actual numbers let's us decide if it sucks for us or is good enough for what we wish to do. I'm sure the 10th place shooter at Quigley felt his shooting sucked that day, and yet he could probably outshoot 99% of us here. It all depends on your frame of reference.

I doubt if any of the top 50% of the shooters at the Q felt there shooting that weekend sucked, and further more I seriously doubt any of the top 75 made the trip up there with a load that the notes inidicate "horrible" to 6 inches at 100.
There's a plethora of proven bullets out there that will shoot well to 600, and the 457124 that has been mentioned here time and again will shoot better than "horrible" all the way to 800 yds.

[Lead pot]

4" or 6" using a rest @ 100 yds is pretty bad especially for a hunting load.

[Matt85]

4" or 6" using a rest @ 100 yds is pretty bad especially for a hunting load.

while 4" isnt great, i wouldnt say it wasnt suited for hunting. if i can repeatedly hit a 6" target off my mono-pod at 100 yards then i would deem the weapon and ammo suitable for hunting.

-matt

[Springfield]

Harley guys think Jap bikes "suck". BMW guys think Harleys "suck" . And jap crotch rocket guys think both Harley and BMW guys are crazy to ride our slow, old designs. Just saying something sucks imparts no information at all. No one ever said the Bl bullets were good for long range, and I specifically said they don't have a reputation for good long range use. I'm surprised you even consider 200 yards "long range". I'm glad you know of many bullets that shoot well out to 600-800 yards but the OP was just needing something for hunting at 200 yards.