Question about COL of Ideal #358429 boolit

[Sig]

Hi all,
I had to stay home a couple of days with my dog whose rear legs suddenly became paralyzed last week. That's a different story & she's doing better now. That time allowed me to finally get to some casting.

I casted up some boolits from my newly acquired Ideal #358429 mold for my GP100. I think they came ok for my first attempt.

I figured I start loading some of these working my way up. I also figured that the crimp should be in the crimp groove of the boolit. So I made a dummy round that way & when I checked the COL it was 1.665" My Lyman manual lists the COL as 1.553". I loaded the dummy round in my revolver & it has about .030" of clearance.

What say the experts here about where I should apply my crimp? I also welcome any comments & critique of my boolits.

Thanks,
Sig

[GaryN]

I have that bullet in a Lyman mold. As long as it clears the front of the cylinder I would crimp in the crimp groove. I don't think you have a lot of choice. You need a crimp, especially if you are pushing them very fast. That heavy of a boolit will move on you if you don't. And you don't want to crimp over the front driving band.

[Vly]

Your photo shows a firmly crimped cartridge, and since it is not too long, you are good to go. I have that one in a 4 cavity Lyman mold - great boolit. To get them to feed in a Marlin 1894, I need to seat to 1.60, which means on the driving band. Not the best situation, but it works out fine.

[Bent Ramrod]

IIRC, when Elmer Keith designed that boolit, he designed it to be used in Colt SAA and large frame S&W revolvers with the crimp just behind the forward band where you have it. This setup would not fit the cylinders of the smaller revolvers in .38 Spl. available at the time, so he recommended the crimp ahead of the forward band for these guns. This would bring the overall length back to that of the standard cartridge with the round nose boolit.

I think most modern revolvers have long enough cylinders (as does yours) so the issue is mostly moot anymore.

[MtGun44]

The N-frme (big) S&Ws have short cylinders and will not take most variants of the
358429 in .357 Mag brass when crimped in the crimp groove. The K and L frame
guns will work fine.
The boolit was designed long before the .357 Mag was invented for hot .38 Spl loads.

I always crimp in the crimp groove, L frame, K frame Smiths and Ruger Sec Six are
fine with it in .357 brass. The nose length varies a bit as the design has drifted
around over the last 80-90 yrs.

Bill

[Mk42gunner]

Sig,

Your load looks fine to me. The reason for the discrepancy in Lymans OAL and yours is that Lyman recommended crimping over the top of the front driving band, so the rounds would chamber in N frame S&W revolvers.

As Bill mentioned, the 358429 was designed by Elmer Keith for .38 Special N frames long before the .357 came about. Why S&W kept the short cylinder for the loonger cartridge is something I have often wondered.

GP-100's are the one modern revovler that I am aware of that are kind of hit or miss on whether the many variations of the 358429 will work when seated to crimp in the groove. If you do a search in the revolver section, there are plenty of multiple page threads that cover the subject in depth.

Robert

[Sig]

Thank you for your responses. You have reaffirmed what I was thinking all along. Time to load some up & go to the range.

Sig

[theperfessor]

As mentioned, my Lyman 358429 WILL NOT work in my GP-100 when it is crimped in the crimp groove. The nose sticks out just a few thousandths of an inch past the cylinder face. I use the 358477 or similar now in my GP-100 and save the -429s for .38 loads in my J & K frames and .357 loads for my Blackhawk.

As MtGun44 and Mk42gunner mentioned the design has changed dimensions a little over the years.