Looking for Input from F150 with the 5.4L Triton owners, looking at a 2004.

[dkf]

I have had and been working on modulars since 98'. Have spoken with several of the engineers from Ford that designed the engine and trans for those series. Anyone whom has actually seen the inside of a modular and know what material the cams ride on and the passage length knows that thick oil (on startup) is not ideal and the engine was not designed for it either. The 5w20, 5w30 and even 5w40 is good and I run 5w-30 in my own. For flow tests the modulars at the engine plant with 5w40 due to the thicker oil used in countries outside North America that the engines are exported to. The numbers of 500k plus and 1 million mile shuttle vans with modulars running nothing but 5w-20 and 5w-30 is plenty testiment to debunk the myth of needing heavy oil. Heavy oil (especially 20w50) has killed more modulars than most can imagine, you are doing no good whatsoever putting that honey in your engine. The cam phasers on the 3Vs were not designed for the heavy oil either.

The extra thread length for all 2V modulars was implemented in 2003 MY but depending on the build date 2003 MY trucks may not have the extra thread length. All 2004up 2V engines will have the extra thread length. And yes I have done plug changes on 03' MY modulars that have the old style short length heads.

In 2004 the F-150 first came with the 3V 5.4l. The 2003 and prior 5.4l in the F-150. The 3Vs were known to have cam phaser issues and the plugs would break off in the heads. Ford switched to a different plug design mid 2008 MY to which corrected the plug breakage issue, however that plug will not work in the 3Vs with the old plug design. The plug breakage was primarily due to the 2 piece plug design which Ford still uses.(the current MC part # is still a 2pc plug) Champion and Brisk make plugs with 1 piece bodies which will not break. There is a TSB from Ford on the removal precedure to prevent breakage and if breakage occurs. Several companies like Lisle make removal tool kits to remove any broken plugs.

Ford lists 100k plug changes however in my experience misfires, decreased economy and etc can often occur long before 100k miles. Depends on how the vehicle is used.

The 2004 MY was a year of redesign for the F150. The engine, frame and body among others things were changed vs the 2003 MY. Thus there are most often more TSBs and minor issues after a redesign like that. They are good trucks it is just wise to keep that in mind. I would recommend getting an Oasis report if at all possible. The Oasis report will show you far more than a Car Fax or similar report and will show any TSBs the truck was brought to the dealer for along with any service and etc.

[Lloyd Smale]

I talked to an engineer in that works in the oil industry and hes says just the oposite. Alot of research has been done by the manufactures to determine which oil run best in a certain motor. He said the lube system is the first thing that has to be approved before a new motor hits the market. 5/30 oils are recomended because the just lube better. He said if anything in the future even thinner oils will be used. He said even in nascar motors very thin oiis are used. Some are even experimenting with 0 weight oils. A big benifit to thin oils is that thin oils abosorb more heat the thick oils. part of the reason the newer motors are going 2-300000 miles is because of research done with oils. Bottom line is that gas mileage is an added benift. The less friction you have the more horsepower your going to develope and that equates to better fuel economy. With the new cars coming with 3-5 year warantees and most drivetrain warantees extendeing to 50 to a 100k would you think that the car manufactures would recomend an oil that was going to cause wear on your motor? Run 1040 if you want but when your motor goes tits up good luck trying to convince ford that you knew more about oil and lubrication then there engineers that designed that motor did.

The plug blowout issue was corrected in 2002. They tried a very-short-reach plug early on (why, I never found out), and it sure caused problems. The plugs had to be perfectly torqued on installation or the thread in the head would fail. 99% of non-Ford-trained mechanics did not know this. Even a lot of trained techs failed to torque the plugs, 'cause it is a PITA to do, so a lot of failures did occur. They went back to normal reach plug in 2001 or 2002, problem solved, unless Omar the gorilla worked on your truck. I remember this pretty well. As Elmer said, "Hell, I was there." (Been retired since 2009).

The Triton with even reasonable maintenance is a 300K+ engine. Couple of points I know about, however:

1.) IGNORE the recommendations for light grade oil. This was promulgated by Ford because the thin oil gets them a better number in the EPA gas mileage tests. GM does it too. Use minimum 10-40. I use 20-50 all year in my E150 van, (at 285,000 miles now), but in very cold climates 10-40 is necessary in winter. I helped make it possible to run those engines on such thin oil, but that still doesn't make it right.

2.) Do not rev the engine high for long periods (ten minutes or more) if you want long engine life. It is known to weaken the plastic facing on the cam chain tensioner and cause it to fail.

This is coming from a guy (me) who spent fifteen years working for a Tier One supplier to the Ford and GM engine plants, and who lived and breathed process control on Triton block/head/crank machining lines (mostly at Windsor) off and on for several years running.

A fleet owner I knew in those days ran nothing but Triton-engined limousines, and told me he traded them in at 300k miles, because the interiors began to look worn. Never had a major mechanical failure, he said.

[cajun shooter]

You are very correct Lloyd. I don't understand people who have any type of gas or diesel engine and then run heavy oil in it.
The new synthetic oils are in the 5W-40 range for diesel motors like my 2005 GMC SLT 3/4 ton with Allison tranny. It has been proven for many years now that a thinner oil will lubricate better in lower air temps than a heavy oil of 30W.
Most all the wear in any engine is during start up with a cold engine. If the oil is thick it will be like trying to pour your Maple syrup outdoors in 30 degree weather. It moves slow and therefore takes much longer to reach those metal to metal parts. Your rings are going at 1500 or more rpm in a dry metal to metal environment.
If you run your engine in the desert with temps over 95 and up then the thicker viscosity oils will come into play. A oil with the range of 5W-40 will run in all areas of the US will no problems.
I will not even began to try and sway the OP from Ford as I have been in that one for 66 years. There will always be a group of GM owners who challange Ford owners and vice versa. The Dodge diesel with the Cummins engine is a work horse with no body to carry it.
The OP should try if he will, do some research on the many test of comparing the GM Diesel vs the Ford Diesel. Later David

[dkf]

I talked to an engineer in that works in the oil industry and hes says just the oposite. Alot of research has been done by the manufactures to determine which oil run best in a certain motor. He said the lube system is the first thing that has to be approved before a new motor hits the market. 5/30 oils are recomended because the just lube better. He said if anything in the future even thinner oils will be used. He said even in nascar motors very thin oiis are used. Some are even experimenting with 0 weight oils. A big benifit to thin oils is that thin oils abosorb more heat the thick oils. part of the reason the newer motors are going 2-300000 miles is because of research done with oils. Bottom line is that gas mileage is an added benift. The less friction you have the more horsepower your going to develope and that equates to better fuel economy. With the new cars coming with 3-5 year warantees and most drivetrain warantees extendeing to 50 to a 100k would you think that the car manufactures would recomend an oil that was going to cause wear on your motor? Run 1040 if you want but when your motor goes tits up good luck trying to convince ford that you knew more about oil and lubrication then there engineers that designed that motor did.

I agree. The OEMs put thousands of hours into testing a new powertrain and makes necessary changes along the way.

[big dale]

I have been very happy with my Dodge with the Hemi engine for over a decade now. Gives more milage than my 74 Ford F150 did but this one has POWER.

Have fun with this stuff.

Big Dale

[Lloyd Smale]

heres the post he made on another fourm when i asked him the question. By the way im not here to fuel the chev vs dodge vs ford thing either. We all have our opinions on this and they usualy came from a bad experience or even a good one and i know im not about to get anyone to all of a sudden switch brands. Im as guilty as the next on this.




Old habits die hard Lloyd. Kinda like the 3000 mile oil change. Before we had injected engines we had carbs. Carbs were sloppy at best. There was a lot of fuel that ended up in the oil especially if towing. You used a heavier oil because it gave you an edge on the viscosity dropping from the thinning effects of the gas in the oil. That's why a lot of folks used it. Some want to claim that you needed a heavier oil in high heat when the exact opposite is true. High school general science class would have taught you that a thinner fluid absorbs heat faster and cools quicker than a thicker fluid. That pretty much describes what oil does in the system. It gets pumped into the engine where it absorbs heat, goes back to the pan where it's released.


Gotta love the recommend of a 10w-30 over a 5w-30. At full operating temp do you know what the difference is? Absolutely nothing, they both are SAE 30 viscosity at temp. The benefit of the 5w base oil is that those oils are made with a higher Viscosity Index base. The 10W, not being a volume seller, is made from low VI base oils and polymers are used to make the spread. Polymers, while better than those of the 90's, are still a sludge maker. Using a 10w-40 is asking for problems as GM found out and ended up having to replace several thousand engines. The recommendation makes zero sense.


FWIW, you'll be seeing oils even thinner than the Xw-20 as you'll see 0w-10 ans 0w-0 oils in about 5 years. Instead of viscosity keeping the parts from rubbing on each other, we now use film strengths and additives that leave dry film lubes on the parts. Another FWIW, NASCAR teams don't use bottled oil like you and I buy. They make their own. Depending on the race track determines the additive package and viscosity At the heaviest, an SAE 20 and a lot of the races use an SAE 0 oil. Yep, it's about like water yet the engines live at RPMs and heat that would kill your stock engine fairly quick.


Another FWIW. All of the auto makers in the USA are memebrs of ILSAC. ILSAC is an organization that determines engine technologies and especially the oils we use. API is the enforcement arm of ILSAC. Any engine designed for the USA market starts with the lube system. That's the absolute first thing that goes into the specs. Since the lube is the first and most critical thing to an auto maker, wouldn't it make sense that the auto makers recommendation is dead on as that's what the engine is designed around? It's hard to out guess an auto engineer that's been doing it most of his life.

[BD]

If it's the 3V 5.4 triton motor, (8th digit vin 5), don't walk, RUN from it. My daughter is still waiting to get her 2004 with the 3V triton back from the engine rebuild shop with a bill of $4,500. That particular motor has several serious issues, ( the plugs don't blow out, they break off when you change them, every single one), the most serious issue is the cam phaser failure which causes an immediate drop in oil pressure and irreversible engine damage. To add insult to injury, that block is $1,000 more rebuilt than the 2V that preceeded it, and the 4V that replaced it and the core charge is nearly double.
BD