Hydraulically depriming Berdan Brass and US source of Berdan primers

[Hang Fire]

Larry Gibson recently came up with an excellent method for converting Berdan primed cartridges to use boxer primers for reloading. And in no way is this thread intended to take anything away from Larry’s efforts.

I just ordered 480 rounds of Swiss 7.5x55 GP11 ammo and came across the following as an alternative for reloading.

The use of a reloading press and Lee universal depriming die, to hydraulically deprime Berdan Brass, it appears to be simple, fast, and involves little effort.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZQNDgjcgofY&feature=fvw

And then these sources of Berdan primers available here in the US.

http://www.grafs.com/retail/catalog/...ategoryId/3986 (currently out of stock)

http://www.dagammo.com/shop/non-corr...mers-p-47.html

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[n.h.schmidt]

Hi Hang Fire
This way does work .You have to be prepared to dry off and spray down the press. The Swiss cases are fairly easy to decap,compared to many. The first time is the hardest with this as in so many things. You can make it a bit easier on yourself if you seat the fired primer a little deeper before you attempt to decap it. The original primer has a seal around it.Seating deeper breaks that seal. You may find the berdan primers are about the only primers to be had from anywhere. I seat the berdan primers with a Lee Ram Prime .It's one of the very few seaters that let me control how deep the berdan primers seat. If you simply seat until they stop like boxer primers you will have seated them deeper than you should.
n.h.schmidt

[Hang Fire]

Hey n.h., thanks for the input from someone who has actually used this method and I will definitely be doing so. It makes sense to break the semi frozen in place primer cup free first, as will be easier for hydraulic force to get it moving.


As I understand it, the GP11 brass is some of the finest out there., so I look at it this way. I bought 100 pieces of 7.5x55 Prvi bras from Grafs, and it was $52.00. Got the 480 rounds of GP11 for $242.00, or $50.00 a hundred, so basically got the live ammo for free, and the once fired better quality brass cheaper than the unfired.

[n.h.schmidt]

I have been doing this for a while. There are other hydraulic ways to decap these cases. What you are going to do will get you started. I have moved to a tube and plunger setup. It takes some doing to make this but is worth it to me. What press do you intend to use for this?
n.h.schmidt

[Hang Fire]

You mean like this? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FskNx4UBZvc

Pretty neat and I have a lathe, so would be no big deal to make one up.

I have two Dillons, but will be using my SS Lee Classic Cast iron. It is the best SS press I have ever seen, I got it new on sale for $79.00, after using is for a while, I ditched my old Lyman Orange Crusher.

[n.h.schmidt]

Yes Very similar to what I use. I have made what I consider to be improvements. For most cases like your swiss and standard head sizes like the 308 a 1/2" hole in the tube will be good. 303 and 7.62X54R will need bigger. A drilled surface will be good enough. The bottom of the hole has to be squared off. A 1/2" drill bit with the point ground as flat and square as you can make it, will work. The tube should be as long as you can make it. A 1/4" hole will need to be drilled into the bottom. You can make this out of SS or plain steel, either will work. For the plunger,I ended up using a grade 5 steel bolt. Since the 1/2" bolt is way too undersize to work as is ,I added three 0 rings to the end. If you watch the video closely ,you will see the plunger sliding down on its own before he hits it. With the 0 rings the plunger will stay where you put it. Also no water will leak out the bottom with the plunger in place. I also made a stand to hold the decapper. I'm not steady enough to not hit my hand with the hammer.
What do you get with all this work?
You get a decapped case with no damage. The water pressure is evened out except for the primer. The other ways only pressure the inside of the case. You will get bulged and sometimes ruined cases. I am not fast but I can decap four cases per min. You may do better.
n.h.schmidt

[victor3ranger]

schmidt,

How does the thing in your picture exacty work????

[Gunor]

http://www.dagammo.com/shop/non-corr...mers-p-47.html

DAG Ammo - Anyone use them? experience?

I like a 1000 primers, but don't need 5000 count - So I am waitng for Graf.

BTW - I bought a Lachmiller Berdan tool - works for me.
BTW - I have 500 rounds of crappy misfiring 7.5 MAS Syrian ammo - hence the need for Berdan....

[Hang Fire]

http://www.dagammo.com/shop/non-corr...mers-p-47.html

DAG Ammo - Anyone use them? experience?

I like a 1000 primers, but don't need 5000 count - So I am waitng for Graf.

BTW - I bought a Lachmiller Berdan tool - works for me.
BTW - I have 500 rounds of crappy misfiring 7.5 MAS Syrian ammo - hence the need for Berdan....

Don't know if true or not, but have read several times the Syrian Brass was not made for reloading. Something about a purposely inherent design which makes bad things happen when reloaded.

Supposedly the French ammo was designed the same way when the French were being driven out of their colonies, so as to make it useless for the Syrian rebels to reload

[n.h.schmidt]

Do not wait for Graff. It took years for them to get any berdan primers. Get them where you can now or regret later. Victor My decaper works mostly like the the one you see in the video that Hang Fire has for us to watch. I just added 0 rings to the plunger and a way to hold the tube while hitting it. Hang Fire Almost all berdan ammo wasn't made to be reloaded,that hasn't stopped us has it? The Syrian ammo may be crappy but you can reload the cases.I know I have.
n.h.schmidt

[victor3ranger]

I have a question about 7.62x39 berdan primers. Are most all of them the large berdan and some manufactured small?

Can't seem to find any jacketed 762x39 bullets anywhere in stock.

Also, reading the info about the primers at the dagammo site, it says these are made for a faster burning powder, what would be the best powders for loading 7.62x39 using these primers?

[felix]

I am basically teaching the basics to younger folks now about all of this. One of the members took a couple of drill sizes to convert 8mm MAUSER MILITARY CRIMPED PRIMER quality cases from berdan to small rifle. One drill, the small one, goes through the primer and all the way through the case bottom in that order. The drill size is the same size used for the BR tool to clean up, to chamfer, the pocket from the case inside, which was done LAST actually (and must be done to protect the reloading tool from breaking pins/rods). The next drill, the larger one, opened up the primer itself to tightly accept and hold a small primer TO BE within the berdan's outside diameter that remains. This technique leaves the crimped berdan primer with no bottom within the case. Cases have been fired several times already at about 40K cup/psi without any mishap whatsoever from the extra small berdan holes still within the case. The new primer pockets are remaining tight, and in fact just right by insertion feel. ... felix

[Hang Fire]

I am basically teaching the basics to younger folks now about all of this. One of the members took a couple of drill sizes to convert 8mm MAUSER MILITARY CRIMPED PRIMER quality cases from berdan to small rifle. One drill, the small one, goes through the primer and all the way through the case bottom in that order. The drill size is the same size used for the BR tool to clean up, to chamfer, the pocket from the case inside, which was done LAST actually (and must be done to protect the reloading tool from breaking pins/rods). The next drill, the larger one, opened up the primer itself to tightly accept and hold a small primer TO BE within the berdan. This technique leaves the crimped berdan primer within the case. Cases have been fired several times already at about 40K cup/psi without any mishap whatsoever from the extra small berdan holes still within the case. The new primer pockets are remaining tight, and in fact just right by insertion feel. ... felix

Felix, that is very interesting. Know it may be asking a bit much, but some photos or video of the procedure would be much appreciated.

Since recently started researching the subject, have been surprised as to how many here in the US have been experimenting with reloading Berdan primed cases.

[felix]

OK, no promises as of now, but prolly this weekend we can get a movie made. ... felix

[victor3ranger]

Felix, I have done the same thing to berdan primed brass cased 308 that I found. Works pretty slick, just takes a while to rehab these, but I guess the bright side of that is you only have to do this one time then treat them as a regular boxer primed brass.

[lxk308]

Yesterday, I hydraulically deprimed about 800 berdan 7.62x39 steel cases. I'm using a Lee press and a 7.62x39 sizing die with the primer pin broken off. Most of the water goes into a 5 gallon bucket via the plastic primer tube connected to the Lee press (it is still messy). I lost about 30 cases with split necks. Some of the these steel cases have been loaded four times or more.
BTW - Powder Valley has some 7.62x39 berdan primers in stock - Tula KV-24N (cheaper then DagAmmo). Also Powder Valley does not require 'an affidavit along with a Photo ID must be turned in before any Primers will be shipped' as does DagAmmo. Powder Valley's website says that they are about a month or more behind on their orders.

[Larry Gibson]

Felix, that is very interesting. Know it may be asking a bit much, but some photos or video of the procedure would be much appreciated.

Since recently started researching the subject, have been surprised as to how many here in the US have been experimenting with reloading Berdan primed cases.

The how to do it w/pictures is in this thread; http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...ckets-to-Boxer

Larry Gibson

[felix]

Yes, Larry, and thanks for the reference. There is no need for me to duplicate your fine expose'. ... felix